Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Options
1…8889919394…190

Comments

  • Options
    #2702
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296651#Comment_119296651

    Where is this quote from the Minister?

    The MetroLink Preliminary Business Case has been approved by Cabinet (which MMcG is part of) having been reviewed by DPER (MMcGs department). It has also been reviewed by the NTA, JASPERS (an independent European Central Bank initiative), the Department of Transport and Reform’s Major Projects Advisory Group. The Business Case gave a cost range of €7.16 - 12.25bn. MMcG has essentially approved the Business Case twice, at departmental and Cabinet level, why would he do this if he honestly thinks it will cost twice as much?

    I'd like to see the actual quote for the €23bn and the source it came from. The actual quote could be something along the lines of "there is serious reputational risk if the cost doubled to €23bn" - that is not a prediction of it costing €23bn. As Minister for Public Expenditure, he is probably obliged to say things like that at meetings. It is clear that the Indo has it out for Metrolink, seemingly worse that the IT which is saying something.



  • Options
    #2703
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296534#Comment_119296534

    It is a lie because it is subjective at best. And if you think it's better you're ignoring the fact that the new routing achieves better connectivity with the wider PT network by diverting further away from major trip generators (Grafton Street, College Green)



  • Options
    #2704
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,319 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291238#Comment_119291238

    Not politically viable says who? Based on what criteria?

    Post edited by lawred2 on


  • Options
    #2705
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296701#Comment_119296701

    It's in the article.

    "He warned against proceeding with the project based on “optimistic cost and benefit forecasts”".

    Cost estimates from €7bn - €23bn is just utter nonsense. I know some people here don't give a fiddlers how much it might cost and just want a shiny new metro, but the taxpayer deserves value for money. With wild variations on costings being thrown about, this project is extremely vulnerable to a change of government and priorities. We've been here before.



  • Options
    #2706
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,319 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292750#Comment_119292750

    Huh? Are you confusing a high speed train with a metro?



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2707
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296755#Comment_119296755

    He also provides absolutely zero reason to think it is an optimistic cost and benefit forecast.

    Sounds like typical non-Dublin moaning about investment in Dublin to be honest. We get this every time there is an investment in Dublin's transport infrastructure. Both the DART and the Luas have been described as overpriced white elephants and I just have zero time for this nonsense anymore.



  • Options
    #2708
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Isn't this the first project that's being priced under new, stricter, rules?



  • Options
    #2709
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296755#Comment_119296755

    That is not the cost estimate. The estimate is €7.16 - 12.25bn. Saying the estimate is up to €23bn is completely false.

    The Indo is putting out the €23bn figure. They don't even quote MMcG as saying it. They have a few words in quotation marks and fill in other details around them. He could have easily said those words before/after completely different words in completely different context. It is second hand information with no source provided.

    MMcG has essentially approved the Business Case twice, why would he do so if he thought it would cost double what the Business Case says? MMcGs direct quote from yesterday;

    Our task now is to ensure that the scheme progresses in a timely manner with protecting the interests of the taxpayer as a central tenet of the project. My department has developed a suite of oversight measures including the External Assurance Process to allow for independent scrutiny of public projects at key decision-making stages and the Major Projects Advisory Group which provides further scrutiny of external reviews.



  • Options
    #2710
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There was a letter in the IT where the writer picked up on a comment about someone 'lived between Los Angeles and Dublin' - 'could he be a little bit more precise'.

    Between €9.5 billion and €23.5 billion is a huge gap. I am sure the M20 motorway will cost somewhere between €10 million and €50 billion without being in anyway wrong.

    What is daft, is that they plan to go the PPP route, instead of looking for EU funding through EIB at interest rates on near zero. They could even get some level of co-funding.

    Could they speed up the RO through the ABP?

    They should start looking for qualified contractors now to speed up the start date. It would benefit the current Gov to get the TBM in the ground before the next election.



  • Options
    #2711
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297830#Comment_119297830

    Between €9.5 billion and €23.5 billion is a huge gap

    That is because €23.5 billion appears to be a nonsense number pulled out of thin air. The expected cost is between 7 and 12.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2712
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297862#Comment_119297862

    Perhaps all the figures quoted are just as nonsense.

    What do the numbers refer to? Unknown.

    What are the assumptions the figures are based on? Unknown.

    Do the numbers quoted include rolling stock? Unknown.

    What did similar Metros cost? Never tried to find a similar metro, so unknown.

    Will we get such back up? Maybe.

    Is this amateur hour at the open mike session? Probably.



  • Options
    #2713
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,523 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Disappointing that some people still think the Indo is a credible source of information on, well, anything really but public expenditure in particular.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Options
    #2714
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297862#Comment_119297862

    Leo Varadkar mentioned the €23bn number yesterday which was a ridiculous thing to do as it now is a big part of the narrative. How they couldn't come out with a unified message is beyond me but it's not the first time we've seen ministers openly contradicting each other with different info.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/metro-rail-service-to-dublin-airport-to-be-built-by-2034-at-a-cost-of-e9-5-billion-1329917.html




  • Options
    #2715
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Leo suspended this project back in 2011- the dithering donkey that he is. Absolutely no vision- that would have been the time to build it



  • Options
    #2716
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    The vision of the project is so small in my opinion- Dublin needs a whole network of metro lines- but just one piddling line to the airport.



  • Options
    #2717
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119297902#Comment_119297902

    The only figure which is nonsense is the €23bn.

    There is a full Business Case which has been reviewed by all relevant government departments, JASPERS (EIB), and approved by Cabinet. The things you state as unknown are known to the relevant people.

    And your earlier comment about a PPP is equally as clueless. Part of the project is being done by PPP (that is the rolling stock and linewide systems), the tunnel and stations construction is not part of the PPP. This is to tie the providers into longer contracts which includes maintenance for many years while also giving single point responsibility for maintaining and operating, rather than having a large number of individual maintenance contracts. The PPP Co will get paid over the life of the contract so they have to uphold their side of the deal, much better than the usual situation where the supplier gets paid in full and its a nightmare to get them come back to sort out any issues.



  • Options
    #2718
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,642 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298406#Comment_119298406

    It's not a line to the airport. It is far more than that.

    It's a high capacity and high frequency north/south rail line under the city centre, and then a line linking the city centre with Glasnevin, Ballymun, the Airport and Swords, and a large Park & Ride north of Swords.

    It links with both LUAS lines, all planned DART lines, and all of the BusConnects Spines.

    People need to stop focussing on the Airport and realise that the line is far more than that.



  • Options
    #2719
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298492#Comment_119298492

    Oh I’m all for it do t get me wrong but we need a metro network



  • Options
    #2720
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,642 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298515#Comment_119298515

    We do, but we need to get this line up and running first. Once that happens, then building more will become far easier politically.



  • Options
    #2721
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Look at the area around this line north of Ballymun. Look at all that lovely green grass around it. Look at those brownfield sites between Ballymun and OCS.

    So much unused land less than 10 minutes walk to a metro station, which in turn is 10-20 minutes away from the city centre via a fast, frequent public transport service. There are very very few areas in Dublin to which this description currently applies. It’s massive in that regard in that Dublin is a low density city with loads of spare land but land that’s well serviced by suitable transport is a major issue. This will create land for thousands of homes with a high quality of life for that reason



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2722
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298515#Comment_119298515

    The luas should have been the start of our Metro network but unfortunately we're a bunch of Paddies. So we put in unconnected trams that don't do much better than a bus time wise.

    However getting this in would be a huge feat and the last thing the gob$hites need to do is make it more ambitious.



  • Options
    #2723
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Funny enough something has just happened to make me wonder if this MetroLink is a real project. The biggest private car park at Dublin Airport is gone up for sale. Do they know the writing is on the wall for car acessibility to the airport?



  • Options
    #2724
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    It is really amazing reading the staggeing hysteria in the comments sections of the media following yesterday's announcement. Loads of people IN DUBLIN saying that it would be unethical to build the metro while Donegal has no rail link. The vast majority are pissed off it is a 'Dublin project' and when people tried to explain that every train station in the country will now be connected to the Airport - via the metro - it just went right over their heads.



  • Options
    #2725
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298688#Comment_119298688

    The kind of people who'd object to building houses, demanding that transport links are provided first, are complaining that this a line to nowhere going through open fields.



  • Options
    #2726
    snowstorm445
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭snowstorm445


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298580#Comment_119298580

    I agree, most metro networks start off with a single line. Once people actually see how beneficial it is expanding the network becomes much easier (not that NIMBY me feiners won't still be a problem).

    I am deeply concerned for this project though, we've been here before. The reporting about this project is so negative. Has actual polling been done on what Dubliners themselves feel about the project, I imagine that would really boost the case for something like this.

    Is it something to do with this country being very American/UK-focused that there's so much opposition to something like this being built? It's a fact of life in practically every European capital city, and plenty of smaller regional cities as well (excluding the UK).



  • Options
    #2727
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,006 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298813#Comment_119298813

    A few cranks who feel so strongly as to comment on news articles on the journal are not at all representative of the public at large. I wouldnt lose any sleep over it



  • Options
    #2728
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298882#Comment_119298882

    These cranks are always supported and amplified by the coke heads and piss heads in Irish journalism, and this in turn creates more cranks. Then senior civil servants start walking into ministerial offices with 'political concerns'. We already have had decades of this kind of thing, and you are extremely naive if you think these loudmouths have no power. They have staggering power on this wee island.



  • Options
    #2729
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298882#Comment_119298882

    I think you're badly underestimating the spite and begrudgery there is out there for any investment in Dublin. There are a huge number of people who feel that Dublin is living it up at the expense of everyone else, and that any money spent in Dublin is theft from Real Rural Ireland.

    When it's put to them that in reality Dublin's infrastructure is pitiful for a city that size and the tax spend per head is less in Dublin than the rest of the state, they'll then suggest that we should invest even less in Dublin so that life there becomes so unbearable that people and businesses resort to moving across the country like some form of Soviet population transfer.

    You might say this is just a few online cranks but there are TDs elected on platforms of "Sticking it to Dublin and fighting for what we're owed". I'd love to see the next edition of every local newspaper in Ireland and see how many have an article or editorial decrying Metrolink.



  • Options
    #2730
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Some dope posted on Facebook today that this project does nothing for Blancherdstown [sic].


    It would make you cry.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2731
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298688#Comment_119298688

    Can't wait till we fill those fields with 3bed semi-ds



Advertisement