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Right to a house?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,374 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    What you say about tax relief on repairs is not completely true. It is if you repair like for like, however this is not always possible. For instance if you replace timber windows or doors with PVC( it nearly impossible to get timber window and doors now) you are supposed to only use the value of the wooden ones against tax and add the remainders to the capital value of the house.

    Just to give you an idea of the potential loss to a LL if a tenant refuses to vacate and stops paying rent.

    On average it seems to take 12 months to get them out of the house using the RTB and legal process.

    On average outside of Dublin a three bed house would make around 1500/ month. That 18k in lost rent. Tenants that carry out this action are much more likely to damage the house and leave rubbish behind. It will probably take a month to clean repair and relet the house another month rent gone.

    I had to clean out a house nearly three years ago it a small two bed. I took a cattle box of rubbish to the dump that cost 60 euro. It took me and my son a day to clean it out.

    Afterwards I had to paint it as walls were all marked and one bed room was bad with mould it seems the tenants were living in this room for most of the day. It took me three days with a local lad. He cost three hundred euro. The paint and other materials for repairs cost 200 euro. Two different painter's quoted me over 1200 to paint the house. If you had to pay labour to clean and repair a house you could allow for 2-3 K

    So the total loss would be in the region of 25k. That time with me the tenant left at the end of the notice period. However between lost rent and repairs I was back about 2-3 k.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    The renting game is no purse of cash, I’ve wore the shirt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Anybody who doesn't understand that different people have different risks/outcomes and only sees their own circumstances is removed from reality. You should be concerned because it effects you when less and less rentals are about. The same way landlords should be concerned when tenants don't earn enough to rent and live



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Wrong, I understand why a LL might say it but it still doesn't make it true. investing in property and becoming a LL is still one of the best investments you can make in Ireland. Yes theirs some risk but thats to be expected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You are further away in your understanding then that proverbial million miles, LLs know and accept that it is a good investment and that there is always a risk of losing money on their investment. That is not the part that has LLs spooked and exiting the sector.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    So you are saying you don't know much about investing as a whole.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    It doesn't change the fact that saying been a LL is scary is an exaggeration



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Depends on whether you understand the impact of current and proposed legislation on your investment. I have my doubts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    I know plenty, it's an obvious fact that been a LL in Ireland is a good investment if you have the money, just look at how much houses have risen in value over the last decade.





  • Exactly.

    If you're a landlord in Ireland and not making money hand over fist that's all on you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,374 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    For any person managing 1-2 properties which are valued 250 k or over it fairly scary. It all depends on where you are at it rent and property value wise. If you have a property in an RPZ where tenants are in it 5 years plus and you did not raise the rent in the intervening period you are looking at a 10-13% rent increase maximum.

    No investor will buy such a property so at present it probably better off to sell it off if the rental return is 5% or less. Dealing with the RTB is a pain. If you end up with HAP tenants you could have to put serious investment into a house. An electric cert is probably 5-700 euro alone before you factor in repairs. A couple of new smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarm, replacing, fan heaters, extractor fans, cooker hoods and shower switches. Because you have GAP tenants some insurance companies charge you extra.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    A million miles may have been an underestimate.

    Again, LLs are not leaving the sector at a time when rents are at historical highs because they think it isn’t a good investment. If you don’t understand why that is considering it has been widely reported on, I can’t help you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    LL's leaving the market is bad for renters but for the majority of LL's the house is worth more than what they paid for it, hardly a scary situation. My own LL knows all about tax and regulations and the risks of bad tenants but he also knows making money is not supposed to be easy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,374 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Again a miss statement. In general rental houses do not climb with the market as they tend to be in poorer condition that family homes. There was a cohort of LL who bought from 2004-10 who may be just about back to market values now.

    LL with 5+ properties are often virtually full-time LL. These guys will be more focused on it as a business.However the smaller providers with 1-2 properties are exiting the market. But what is more frightening is the amount of properties that people are unwilling to rent. Even though government have changed legislation to allow for more of the rental income to be held onto, people with family in nursing homes are unwilling to rent those properties. It the same with people gone to live with family members. With the strongest rental prices ever people are unwilling to take tenants into these properties.

    1/3 of the houses for sale in the last few months are LL exiting the market. It never easy to make money, but when the risk V reward increases substantially then you get investors leaving a market.

    Try to stop BSing with blase assumptions. You know f@@k all about the risk or the market. Everything is great until it goes wrong. And then you have a 10-20k loss to sort out

    If you are depending on that as part of your pension or income when you cannot make market returns or get back into that space, it makes more sense to cash in the investment.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,643 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    As is, there are too many reasons not to be a landlord.


    What SF are looking for as a more regulated sector but that is largely corporate dominated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    As long as you pay the rent every week , you can stay in a council flat, even if you earn 70k salary, my friend lived in a 3 bed house with her mother, she was still given a council flat 10 years ago. As she is on disability lowance. Single mothers are living in hotels with kids as theres not many houses left, that were not sold in 2000. I don't think anyone says you have a right to a house, it's more like you go on housing list , if your income is less than 30k you may get offered housing

    The systems sort of worked before local authority's decided to sell most of the houses they rented out

    And if course we are facing rising inflation, even with free land it costs 340k plus to build a council house they are usually 2 or 3 bed units

    They are built to a high standard of sound proofing and energy rating insulation

    If someone buys a house for 200k they'll have to charge a very high rent to cover the mortgage and pay tax , no one seems to like landlords but we need em in a modern economy it's not likely someone bloke working in Tesco will be able to buy a house unless it's in the middle of nowhere

    Hotels in Spain are offering workers free rooms accommodation just to attract staff no experience needed they get 6 hours training and learn on the job



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Landlords get old when they reach a certain age its easier to sell up than to deal with tenants bureaucracy tax revenue etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,374 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Incorrect again. If you are a long time LL, it better to hold especially if you have a family. You will pay 33% on any capita gain and ten years later your Children may have to pay inheritance tax.

    It generally makes more sense to hold. However if your rent is way under market value it may make more sense to sell.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Considering that was never said the issue is your understanding. I said landlords are scared and you can't see the difference in those statements it is certainly a you problem. You could own a great car and a group of people could hate that that car and start smashing them up if they see them. It isn't scary to own the car but you can be scared somebody will come and smash it up.

    Essentially you are the one exaggerating what was said not that it was an exaggerated statement. If landlords aren't scared why are they leaving the market and saying they are scared of what will be brought in?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    So SF are trying to get foreign companies to come in and buy up our country while punishing people who provided a needed service for decades! Got it. They some how think taking rights away from Irish people in favour of foreign investment is the ideals they stand for.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Most LL's are making a good profit, what's scary to some is simply the cost of doing business to other LL's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Are you deliberately missing the point?

    What you term “the cost of doing business” is driving a significant number of LLs out of the sector at a time when rents are at historical highs, that is atypical of investment strategy. Why do you think LLs are doing that? It is not like the reasons haven’t been reported on numerous times, chief among them, fear of the implications of both enacted and proposed legislation which means that investors effectively lose control of their investment if the tenant stops paying rent/refuses to leave, preventing the sale of the investment. If SF do get into Government, they propose removing the right to terminate a tenancy when the LL wants to sell their investment. That is a scary prospect for any small investor, which the owners of 85% of all rental accommodation are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,994 ✭✭✭Taylor365


    Really? So tell us how much most landlords are making?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    So your going to pretend been a LL is currently not a good way to make money? Your post is childish



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The last time I seen something like this posted I asked for numbers to back it up, needless to say the person came up with some numbers, when I pointed out about a mortgage on house then more numbers came. Then when I pointed out that rent is not tax free teh numbers stopped coming and it went very quiet

    If been a LL was so easy why have so many got rid of it and even more have gone to AirBnB etc to get rid of it?

    Wouldn’t be calling anyone childish online



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    People know, and have 30-40 yrs to do something about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87


    Have you any suggestions? its going to take 40 years to fix something that happened in less than 10. Houses were cheap 10 years ago after the crash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,301 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    What have people done in the past if they couldn’t afford to buy/build where they wanted?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭asdfg87


    Read the article this has not happened before.



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