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Future of warfare (How should Ireland build their millitary)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    We're claiming helplessness. It's tiring and embarrassing. Finland is now joining NATO. Ukraine invited to join the EU along with Moldova. Ireland doesn't appear to have the remotest clue as to what is going on. RTE has a lot to answer for.

    If you don't read multiple media sources, you're essentially just reading propaganda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    We have access to multiple sources of information from different perspectives these days but most Irish still in Ireland rely on RTE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    It's the 'soft' tech that we need. Not artillery. And tech is what we're good at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    We would never be invaded. No need to as we have nothing Russia wants. Our waters and unprotected areas are what Russia can exploit.

    But hey! We've got fishermen!



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    I know that we don't do well at cooperating with either the EU or the Brits, but, with a lunatic at large.............?



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ancientmariner


    I'm afraid the powers that be know exactly what is going on and have made forced choices on the PDF to shift it from 14,500 to 9,500 personnel following the Report on the Commission on Remuneration and Conditions in the Defence Forces July 1990. With the latest Census we are at 5.1m population and should aspire to a PDF, inclusive of reserves, of 25,000 or 0.5% of Population.

    If budget remains static and pay increases then numbers , conditions, and capital acquisitions are moved downwards.

    As regards media, most news is orchestrated and often seasonal and topical. it can be led by lobbyists, financial interests, political parties etc. Large parts of media are used to eulogize entities and those making money out of the Irish environment. We are the dearest country in Europe, we are leaders in Medical, Chemical and technical output. we HQ some of the world's biggest tech Corporations and yet we minimise Defence and Social protection so much so you would think strange non-national Gurus are in charge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Plusone on the fishermen but who says Russia is our likely enemy? More likely nearer to home. What we need is to make it too hard for what it may be worth to a rogue state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    Currently Russia is the one invading countries who are not our allies.

    The UK is in NATO. They're not rogue. Just arrogant twats lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    The thing is that if the UK touched Ireland now, I'm pretty sure that the wrath of 1000 generations would be unleashed on them lol so the UK aren't a military force to be reckoned with from our personal standpoint. Their power is in wealth and international power. Militarily, there is no point arming Ireland heavily. It would be the equivalent of arming Barbados heavily; not terribly useful. We would only ever be a target from which to base nukes to the UK or the US. From that point of view, we could do with some sort of defensive weaponry I suppose should Putin decide to set up base camp in Wicklow lol.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    To be honest, I'm not sure who's running things these days as some recent Supreme Court decisions in the US have been questionable to say the least. Who is buying those dudes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    There is money in war. Who's got their hands on the controls though? Anyone's guess at this point!



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    The war games by Russia off the coast of Cork were a metaphorical fishing exercise rather than a literal one lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well they are unilaterally prepared to renage on an international agreement. Who knows what a future more extreme UK administration might do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ancientmariner


    Barbados a nice place I have been there a few times but does not compare to the unique position of the island of Ireland. We are located on the sea lanes North and South of the Approaches to Europe , larger ships from the North of Europe are routed down our west Coast, and most Atlantic air corridors pass over Ireland. In addition our Western EEZ is submarine playground and deterrent pool. We just need to know what's there and intervene as necessary to show our awareness during peacetime. As regards lethal intervention we must enforce our rights and emulate Finland of old and Ukraine of today.

    Our retarding problem is the cause of our alleged neutrality and that is the northern occupation. it is weakened somewhat by the GFA and may allow us to join an alliance as a contributing partner. I think depending on others to do it is weak and one can admire the decision of two little Baltic States joining together to purchase a co-ordinated Air Defence System.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    Biden is more allied with Ireland than he is with the UK. On the political world stage, the UK is more powerful than Ireland, but you can take the man out of Ireland, but you can never take Ireland out of the man. I know Biden isn't first generation Irish but he's Irish and the UK knows that. No matter how much Boris' father rants about leaving the Irish to just bomb themselves or how much Priti Patel wants to impose sanctions on Ireland and starve us, it's not going to go down well internationally. Biden at the helm is not popular in Britain as they know that he will protect Ireland. Clinton was the same (not Irish?) and instrumental in facilitating talks leading to the GFA. The Irish vote in the US is a massively powerful one.

    When Biden was elected, there was a youtube video doing the rounds where a BBC reporter asked him for a comment saying that she was from BBC. His response was 'I'm Irish'.

    The EU however, knows how strategically positioned we are and how unprotected we are. We should be helping THEM and ourselves out! Russia could exploit our defenceless position.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    If you ever fancy taking me to Barbados - I'm free! ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    I think that it's time for us to give up our neutrality. We were never terribly neutral nor against defending ourselves ;)

    I know that we don't need to get involved necessarily, but we need some sort of defence mechanisms and to be able to defend ourselves with more than fishermen! Hats off to the fishermen though!

    I think the Russian exercise was a test to see who would react and how. They now know that NATO (of which we're not a member?) will not intervene on our behalf. We're a weak spot and they have confirmed that by the inaction by anyone bar the fishermen to intervene while they were in our fishing waters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    If I was Putin and wanted to set up a base to nuke Europe, England and the US, I would pick Ireland!

    For now I think his sole mission is to regain the former Soviet Union states. He seems to be getting ever more brutal. Last I read, he bombed a shopping centre in the Ukraine while 1000 people were inside it. He's a lunatic no matter what way you look at it and entirely unpredictable. The Ukraine was begging NATO and the EU for years about the build up of troops on their borders etc. Poland, in the EU and NATO I think? were saying the same thing! Nobody listened.

    Putin has already said that he'll nuke London.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1617151/putin-superweapon-uk-kinzhal-nuclear-war-ukraine-russia

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/21/vladimir-putin-threatens-unleash-satan-ii-nuclear-missile-year/



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    This is from one of those articles:


    Professor Andrew Futter, an international relations expert at the University of Leicester, told Express.co.uk that the UK’s lack of defensive weaponry would leave the country extremely vulnerable if a strike was launched.

    He said: “We don't have the ability to intercept and destroy incoming Russian ballistic missiles.

    “Since the early Cold War, the UK has effectively relied on deterrence because defence (either active missile defences or passive civil defence) are hugely expensive and in some cases unworkable.

    “UK policy rests on the threat of nuclear retaliation after a strike.


    So the UK effectively needs to go nuke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    Not being a member of NATO is partly the reason why the Ukraine is fucked and under attack. Russia knows very well that Ireland isn't part of NATO. The NATO alliance essentially protects those within it, but not anyone outside of it. Russia knows that attacking a NATO nation is not a good idea, but Ukraine and Ireland are not in NATO and he KNOWS.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    Britain would protect us merely as a defence of themselves. But we're extremely vulnerable and Putin is not entirely sane!



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    This is an interesting read by the way. It has various ways of measuring the relative intelligence of different countries.

    Ireland features in one measurement. Russia doesn't feature in any measurement but Belarus does ;)




  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    You need to scroll down through the article as it's measured in several ways. Netherlands and Germany, Finland and Ireland are about the only countries that feature in any of the measurements.

    Perhaps we should make friends with China? Or Japan!



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    The relevance of me posting that is that we can outsmart the Russians. We outwitted the Brits!



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    We need to use our smarts. We need someone at the helm who isn't political and who realises our military position. As I said earlier, we're world-leading in tech. We should use it. We should absolutely be building up some detection ability (at the very least!!!) and defensive ability ideally. If we come under attack, we're kinda fucked as we're not a NATO member and we can see how that is going for the Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    Why do you think Finland has joined NATO all of a sudden?



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    We have the ability. We just need someone who isn't worried about filling potholes in Abbeylara getting him votes.

    We're bordering on lunacy in these times by playing dumb. 800 years of occupation should have taught us something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam




  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    In general, I'm speaking in general lol.

    Oldmariner or something is who I was replying to I think. I do tend to ramble though.

    Do we need to bullet-point **** here? A powerpoint presentation or something?



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    I'm not necessarily replying to anyone or to any specific point at any time.

    Is that ok? Sir?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭nokpam


    It's not difficult to follow my train of thought if you have an ounce of wit about you. Sir.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,600 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    suffering from not having a credible doctrine. We need to decide what its purpose is..

    I think this is true not just in the air but of all the services.

    But these forums are not interested in a gradual buildup up capability, or moderate measures. So any discussion that isn't a huge ramp up in capability, will be not be welcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I think we should have an independent policy not part of a bloc. That might mean taking sides (as with Ukraine). We should have a strong military deterrant. Flexible modern equipment. this doesn't cost too much but is more that we spend currently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    We are already part of a bloc, being a member of the EU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I was thinking more of a military bloc. I guess the EU may go that way..



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ancientmariner


    We can make a sensible contribution to the defence of Europe by picking from defence tasks and equip to do that well in consort with others . As an Island we are in a Marine environment and should be skilled at Marine landings, Mining and clearing mines, detecting and dealing with submarines, surveillance in all dimensions, helicopters for troop insertion land and sea, MPA with ASM, all arms air defence capability, and land mobile response units with strike missiles.

    As a Naval contribution think One MRV, Four 115m Vard's, 4 MCM vessels, two minelaying vessels, Twelve 25 knot + attack torpedo craft, and two bases on west and east coasts. In addition we must up our use of offensive drone technology. Some of the skills required passed through the Service from 1940's to 1971 and were allowed lapse. What you do has to be relevant and not just observing and reporting.

    The vessels involved in last weeks AS exercise west of Scotland has a Canadian Frigate ( H) weekending in Cork. We should be capable of joining such teams.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Course, the Fishermen would be quick to start complaining about that as well…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Ah wait till “the sonar is ruining the fish” argument comes out…



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    are you suggesting logic from the fishing industry? Next you’ll be saying farmers might stop complaining about the weather…



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  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ancientmariner


    Some members enjoy the frivolity of clowning while the main acts are coming on. There is a current need to defend our country from ongoing cyber attacks and guard against organisational and productive shut downs. I agree that the tactics and smaller formation capabilities of our Infantry units have been proven in Un operations. We need to put in place the dimensional aspects of defence on land Sea and Air. There must be an immediate Defence Plan based on some co-operation with European Defence. perhaps also participate in ready Force units.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It is an argument which has been made in the US, but has its downsides as well, mainly relating to recruiting and retention. Yes, your reserve construction engineer battalion made up of folks who are road workers, house builders, carpenters, electricians, etc, may well be the best construction engineer battalion in the army…, but that is only if you can fill it.

    whilst, sure, there are some folks who join support units because they truly enjoy their job, or because they want to get into the job and are relying on the Army to train them in the skills, in large part we find that given that people have to want to volunteer to spend their time, they may not be interested in support units. Why should they volunteer their time only to do what they are already doing Monday through Saturday every week anyway? After a week of hammering nails into wood, they want to blow something up. We have little trouble filing combat units, filling the support units is often a little trickier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ancientmariner


    Our biggest problems are to recreate the modern versions of the skills and equipments that have been deleted from our OB. When we deleted equipment , the DOD also went for disposal of the primary assets such as all the Coastal Forts. They also got rid of major Posts , Barracks, and Hospitals and large acreage facilities. We need mobile CDM, ADM systems , and Long range ARTY, and geo-positions to fire from. The Navy needs a restored Defensive/Offensive edge and likewise the Air Corps. The Surveillance task, and who will do it, needs to b clearly identified and co-ordinated.

    The major danger at all times is the propensity of elected parliamentarians to shut down or curtail major State assets and in the long term leave the country totally dependent on others far afield. Lastly the provision of port facilities is a decision and matter for Government through the ACTS as appropriate.



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