To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Calling me a Troll ain't nice @FTB2021 At least the poster who called me a wind up merchant which more than one poster has done isn't that right @_Kaiser_ ? was just trying to descredit my posts into comedy, which they are far from BTW.

Everybody has their own unique style. Don't call them Trolls or wind up merchants might be a good start.

I feed the thread with content beyond the reaches of just mere mindless digs and falsehoods.

Case in point below. If you want to discuss masks and Prof Cormican aka AMRIC views on masks with me I'm here for you.

This was posted last night. Do you even know who he is and what he has done not done for mask wearing in Ireland? If not PART 1 of this thread could prove very useful before you reply.

What are the actual rules on mask wearing in a medical enviornment? I went to my GP today for a consultation ahead of a prescription and the receptionist would not let me into the waiting room as I refused to wear a mask. It is routine to have an appointment in this place and be seen 1hr to 1.5 hour later after and never ever are you seen on time; as it is just chaos there so I told them I'll be outside when he's ready. Doctor shook my hand and was not wearing a mask himself when he subsequently came out to me.

A medical facility can enforce such rules if they want to, it is within their prerogative. If they don't want to let you in without a mask, it is their call.

As for "unscientific quackery", you'd know all about.

Masks should be the default setting in medical waiting rooms when you consider the amount of people likely to be in there with respiratory infectious diseases, not just covid.

Of course we needed them. You're rewriting history now as if we only ever had to face Omicron with a vaccinated population.

We don't know what variants will emerge next, which is why it is reasonable of the government to be planning legislation for mask mandates in future if deemed necessary.

We were right during the pandemic not to pander to those put out by the minor inconvenience of a mask, as an effective means of reducing transmission.

Covid represented a threat of a whole new order to the capacity of public health. It wasn't just a "dose of the sniffles" and it is utterly dishonest to present it as such. It's why every major health authority in the world reacted as it did to covid (and not just flu and not just a dose of the sniffles). The UK tried to treat it as a dose of the sniffles and had to abandon that as hospitals filled up.

Masks should be the default setting in medical waiting rooms when you consider the amount of people likely to be in there with respiratory infectious diseases, not just covid, and in hindsight, should have been pre-covid.

Incoherent nonsense.

You don't even want people in doctor's waiting rooms to wear masks, so what was your plan to protect vulnerable people during the covid pandemic? You don't have one.

How were nursing homes to be kept safe, if staff have to move about in the wider society?

This is why, all the major public health authorities in the world acted as they did with restrictions, including masks.

I've no "problem" if others have to be "forced" to comply with mask mandates when deemed necessary by public health authorities & government, or such other measures as deemed necessary by them as the proper authority to decide such things.

Anymore than I have a "problem" with people being "forced" to comply with legislation on public smoking, drink driving, seatbelts, driving dangerous vehicles, licensing requirements, insurance requirements etc etc

Not really for me to say. It's a moot point until more are proposed, similar to what is proposed for masks:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/covid-government-to-draft-new-laws-for-mandatory-face-masks-1326280.html

I refer you to my previous answer, I'll leave that to the experts - and also, the appropriate thread.

If anyone has an obsession about masks, it seems like you fit the bill seeing as you seem to hang about the thread despite getting so worked up about them and any possible sign of their reappearance as mandated. If that's the game you want to play you aren't playing it well - so nope, I refuse to be baited by you.

People can be convinced of the merits of masks without having to have an 'obsession' about them.

You see, you can't bring yourself to think that people could have formed such an opinion, so you have to tar them with some malign motive or personal failing - either they are obsessed with telling people what to do OR they have curtain twitchers, or bedwetters or some other perjerative term.

I see right through your tactics.

I'm not "throwing a tantrum". There you are with the baiting again. You are wasting your time with it because I see right through it.

Impossible to debate the merits of an issue with someone who has to ascribe malign motives or personal failings to those on the opposing side of the debate. It's obvious what you are doing, and I reject the premise entirely.

I've no problem with legitimate authority mandating rules in shared environments to reduce risks such as masks, indoor smoking, or drink driving, or roadworthy vehicles to make them "behave as they should" - because their behaviour affects more than just them. Does that mean you think drivers are treated like toddlers? And what difference would the answer make? Absolutely zero.

Yeah, "insulting and deflecting" posts are all over the site:

your apparent obsession with trying to tell people what to do, and hiding behind the "authorities" to justify it.

Now now.. take a breath. No need for tantrums.

You want to treat them like toddlers and make them feel/behave the way you believe they should.

But you are "done indulging" and are ok to dictate to others what the "limit of their entitlement" is.

I think your own words say it all.

So nope I reject entirely the premise of your posts.

It is a thread about masks. Apparently you'd like to set rules on it such that people who are pro-masks are not allowed to comment on it in favour of the mask legislation being considered by the government. Well that is not one of your 'entitlements', and does not need your 'indulgence' to be permitted.

I am entirely in favour of such legislation. And throughout the covid pandemic the Irish people in polls and in actions showed their acceptance of the need for mask mandates when deemed necessary by the public health authorities.

Many major public health authorities had people convinced to disinfect and quarantine the weekly shop, and their clothing before reentering their home, before accepting deliveries etc.

The fact is that countries seized on any measure/restriction to try to tackle Covid resulting in similar methods attempted - it doesn’t prove, or grade, the effectiveness of common methods attempted.

We’ve had two years to figure out how to protect elderly and vulnerable. Wearing a mask is not the solution. Even in countries where N95 only masks were mandated it didn’t put a dent in the spread of Omicron. Unless a nasty variant comes along, boosters and support for elderly and vulnerable is enough.

Nursing homes and hospitals can never be safe-proofed against a highly contagious airborne virus, even a complete lockdown doesn’t work for those settings, as once it gets in there’s no controlling it. If wearing a mask makes you and loved ones feel protected then good, but mandating them is just a political placebo for the permanently worried. Distancing is the only effective way to reduce spread, and is impractical and disproportionately problematic for anything other than a short burst, and even then primarily to protect healthcare being overwhelmed.

Disrespect away - I care little for your respect. Re omicron vs earlier variants, you’ll notice I mentioned the caveat of a nasty new variant.

I have no idea why you are introducing ‘dose of the sniffles’ or ‘open the pubs’ in your reply to me.

I don’t believe masks make any significant reduction in infection outside of a lab experiment.

Im not sure you understand what a strawman argument is. My point was that it doesn’t need high community transmission to overwhelm a hospital with a respiratory virus. It only needs a small number of virulent infections and it is thereafter not containable.

Distancing is an effective measure for a contagious airborne virus in an interdependent society and real life experience, masks are not. Authorities were hesitant in recommending masks, that’s true, what was the reluctance? Did mask advocates know more and know better than public health authorities?

Distancing is certainly possible now for most who feel they need to. Not sure why you need to disclaim anyone’s indulgence, I’m giving an opinion contrary to yours that’s all.

Have another read of the post that was responding to and the tone therein.

Regardless, the point is simple - if someone wants to wear a mask, socially distance, limit their activities, stay home, whatever and for whatever reason then they are entirely free to do so.

What they are NOT free to do is complain about or others who don't feel the same way on the issue. Covid will affect everyone differently. For the vast majority there is little to no significant effect. That's the fact after 2.5 years of empirical evidence. We also have a vaccination programme and those who are actually at risk are encouraged to get boosters when needed. We're also dealing with significantly milder variants.

In short, once again, Covid is not the deadly killer it was feared to be in early 2020. For the vast majority of people it's little more than a cold, an inconvenience. For those who it IS more than that, there are treatments and advice available.

And ultimately, with everything else that's going on in this country at the moment - cost of living surges, rental and housing crisis, problems accessing treatment for other healthcare issues, the ongoing influx of Ukrainian refugees that will cost 3bn in the upcoming budget to support, etc - the last thing we need right now is renewed Covid scaremongering by those who seemingly can't recognise the above and that we have far more import things to deal with than what IS no more than a mild dose for the vast majority who catch it.