Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Surely common sense would be the UK not breaking its own agreements? Though if the UK simply matches the EU standards as you say then it is fine, that was the deal May was offered a few years ago.

Listen time will tell. Just think with the post Covid global mess we are in, mix in Ukraine and inflation, energy etc etc that really the NI protocol is small beans.

I would happily find a face saving compromise for both sides and turn a blind eye to actual trade between the UK and NI with a smokescreen of supposed checks and just get on with it.

It's been political since day one and the harsh reality whether anyone likes it or not the only actual perfect solution from a trade point of view is to have a border between the NI and Republic as it is the interface between the UK and the EU yet we know that isn't politically possible or desirable for obvious reasons.

Boris shouldn't have signed the NI protocol but was backed into a corner as he had to get Brexit done and clear as day the EU was going to need a pound of flesh and the Protocol was the pound. Boris blustered it and in short hoped to be able to sort it out at a later date and fudge a way through. That is what is currently in progress and if I was a betting man I'd say in time it will get fudged with the protocol technically surviving but a 'methodology of enforcement' or 'protocol of operation' or some nonsense like that being agreed between the UK and EU which allows Boris to say he has restriction free trade on goods going between NI and the UK and the EU having cover to say that goods going to the Republic or back are covered - in essence red and green stuff.....

Well we will see how it pans out.........I know what I'd be betting on !!

I have no doubt it will be a fudge as the only alterative is two impossible positions and history is littered with fudges....it's inevitable eventually. The only question is how long it takes to get there.............I just for everyone's sake hope they hurry up !!

The entire thing has been a fudge since day one, or haven't you noticed :)

Well your hero Mogg said it will take at least 50 years so hopefully Boards is still a thing.

Funny Sefocovic tonight saying they will 'cut checks to the bare minimum' - sounds like a negotiating position to me - i.e you don't scrap the NIP and we will fudge our checks.....looks like a fudge and a middle ground which could allow both out. It takes two to tango and we get a solution. Not sure why this is such a hard thing to get our heads round. Ultimately if both sides can walk out claiming victory to their respective power bases and the UK gets to have unrestricted trade between the NI and the mainland UK and the EU gets to have some cover on goods coming from the UK to the Republic and the North gets to trade away with whoever it wants we all win.....that ultimately is the best solution.

The one thing I am sure of is the current position is doing no one any good.................

Not sure the UK would agree with you there on the checks and honestly how you can say we are doing just fine when there is the threat of a trade war is beyond me but anyway. If the UK push ahead with this legislation to remove the Protocol and the EU retaliates with a trade war no one wins. Just more mess and animosity.

I am not a unionist but understand why they have a problem with the Protocol and can see while it suits the Republic to have a border down the Irish Sea atm but I can also see why the UK has issues with this. Yes it was their fault for signing the NIP but I can also see why they did as Boris needed to politically push Brexit through but I am also amazed the EU couldn't see that this was going to cause issues with the Unionists and sections of the Tory party and net result is it isn't a workable solution. Scoring points means nothing long term.

I am so far past blaming people or looking to score points and just want a settlement now as if this continues we all lose especially in the current global crisis, inflation etc etc. If both sides dig in and we get a trade war, the UK loses, the EU loses and I can guarantee we in Ireland lose too.

A bit of self interest sometimes means giving a little.

Anyway will leave it there.

For what it's worth I think in time there will be a negotiated fudge and I hope there is.

Didn't mean to imply you did, just genuinely interested to see if anyone thinks he has any principles beyond his own greed/personal glory.

Brexit is not compatible with the GFA. This has been true from day one and the NIP is the compromise to get Brexit done. That was a choice for Johnson, not something he was forced to do as he was backed into a corner.

There was always scope within the NIP to minimise checks through negotiation between both parties. You cannot claim getting one over the EU when it is in the agreement that this is what would happen. The EU has always said it is open to negotiation and Truss is the one that has not met with Sefcovic for some time. The UK could also have made it easier for themselves had they provided the information the EU was asking for to make this process smoother. But they have not done this.

This is not some grand plan from Johnson. He has always just been out for himself and is only interested in surviving another day/week/month. There is no grand plan other than avoid scrutiny and his current troubles is testament to this. He has gone through 2 ethics advisers and one anti-corruption champion and he is apparently looking to avoid appointing a new ethics adviser to avoid the repeat happening again.

Sounds like you are agreeing then, the inevitable fudge will result with everyone going home happy. NIP will technically exist on paper so the EU and Coveney are all warm and fuzzy, no actual checks so Boris and the DUP crack open the sherry and everyone climbs down claiming victory. Result, just a case of sitting back with popcorn now and waiting to see how it all unfolds.

Real politics, never really been any different despite all the bile and vitriol which has got very tiresome.

All inevitable unless we get le trade war as a temporary interlude to keep the nonsense foaming for a little while longer.

Nothing is a workable solution to the Tories, there is nothing that will make them happy. There is a reason there was nothing said about leaving the single market pre brexit because as soon as that was mentioned people would realise it was dumb and not vote for Brexit.

I get the unionist position but also can't see why they voted for Brexit. They can't physically man a border in Ireland at the moment so any and all checks were always going to be at the ports.

Even if they get the fudge the UK will be back at it in 6 months time complaining that the fudge doesn't help them enough. You want a settlement, well it isn't happening. Boris needs Brexit to keep going, that was all he was elected to do and the economy isn't strong enough at home to keep him in power as soon as Brexit is not a topic. You say that you are amazed the EU can't see what was going to happen but you are arguing for a settlement which will again be complained about. Then we will have people asking to give a bit again and again and again. Funny how these deals people suggest here don't have the UK giving anything.

Believe me I am no fan of the DUP and agree they haven't exactly been the sharpest throughout but they will stick at it and that ain't exactly going to help the North.

Honestly I think we will see a negotiation based on what I have suggested. The NIP will remain in name only with practical checks nonexistent or minimal if that makes the EU feel better......it will allow both sides an exit path but both sides having to give up some ground too.

Just hope it comes sooner rather than later.

Doesn't mean I like it, just beginning to realise it really is time to move on.