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January 6 Public Hearings

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  • 07-06-2022 6:05pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭


    When are the hearings’ dates and times?

    The first hearing will start Thursday, June 9, at 8 p.m. Eastern. The committee hasn’t announced a formal schedule for the rest, but there could be as many as eight through June, with a final hearing in September — right before the November midterm elections.

    How to watch the hearings

    The committee usually live-streams its hearings, and most major TV news stations will be airing at least Thursday’s hours-long hearings in full: TheWrap reports that ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and CNN plan to. Fox News is the only major news network to decide not to, instead saying it will continue with its regular, primetime coverage and talk about the hearings “as warranted.”

    The Washington Post will have anchored coverage and analysis beginning Thursday night on www.washingtonpost.com.

    What to watch for

    The committee plans to detail their findings of what they say was a months-long Republican conspiracy to overthrow Joe Biden’s legitimate election victory, led by President Donald Trump. The committee could even accuse Trump of committing a crime by intentionally trying to stop Congress’s certification of Biden’s win on Jan. 6, 2021. But Congress’s power is limited; ultimately, the Justice Department would have to decide whether to prosecute.

    Investigators have not gotten many close Trump allies or top Republican members of Congress to testify. So they plan to call in staffers to some of the top players, like aides to former vice president Mike Pence, or former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. And they plan to play videos of their previous interviews with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, report The Post’s Jacqueline Alemany, Josh Dawsey and Amy Gardner.

    Each hearing will have a theme. On Thursday, lawmakers are planning to introduce the public to what they’ve been up to for the past 11 months since Democrats in Congress voted to set up the investigatory committee. Only two Republicans, Reps. Liz Cheney (Wyo.) and Adam Kinzinger (Ill.) sit on it, and there are no Trump allies on the committee. They will make an opening statement that offers an overview of the Jan. 6 events.

    The New York Times reports that on Thursday, a documentarian who interviewed the Proud Boys and a Capitol police officer who was injured in the attack will provide testimony as some of the panel’s first public witnesses. This comes after the current and former leaders of the Proud Boys were charged with seditious conspiracy, for allegedly planning the attack on the Capitol.

    ...

    When the hearings go live it will be streaming at the following:

    Fox News instead has already ramped up its midterms seasonal coverage of "migrant caravans" that will be broadcast as counterprogramming beginning now through the rest of the year, ending abruptly after election day (again).

    Rep. Elise Stefanik teased additional efforts to counterprogram the hearings will proceed as well.

    “We’re working very closely with President Trump and his team with Leader Kevin McCarthy, with Jim Jordan, and really all of the House Republicans will be pushing back in a rapid response fashion,” Stefanik said, previewing what is to come.

    McCarthy and Jordan were among those subpoenaed by the January 6 committee who refused to cooperate. Jim Jordan particularly demanded that the committee disclose all of their sensitive investigative info for him before he would cooperate - something totally innocent people do all the time. He has told multiple versions in public of what happened on January 6, including different versions of whether or not he spoke to POTUS on January 6, or what time on January 6, or what about.

    Stefanik called the committee "unconstitutional" but it remains unclear how this applies to the January 6 select committee, and not previous select Committees on eg. Benghazi, or Emailgate. Republicans rejected an earlier proposal to have an even more even-handed panel that would have been Bicameral; they filibustered the vote to make this happen. Proceeding that effort, Republicans outed Liz Cheney as the GOP House leader for her cooperation with Nancy Pelosi in devising a January 6 select subcommittee. Kevin McCarthy (who refused to cooperate as a witness) tried to recommend Jim Jordan and other Republicans to the panel that had actively voted to object to electors or had even sponsored lawsuits against the results (the least impartial investigators).

    What remains clear is that Republicans have been found and evidenced to have coordinated in very real terms a seditious conspiracy to overthrow the legitimate election results of the 2020 presidential race - all 3rd party ninja audits, lawsuits etc. all exhausted, there was no There there, and Mike Lindell, the MyPillow CEO, may die mad about it. But, this went from not just mere challenging of votes or recounts but extended to having the GOP coordinate on a national level to send falsified slates of electors to congress (fraud, charges of which are working their way through the legal system right now) to which then VP Pence was to be encouraged to use as 'reasoning' to suspend the Electoral Count, which is outlined in the constitution and codified as 3 USC § 15. It included members of Trump's administration and shadow-administration (members who worked for Trump but were not federal employees or cabinet members, such as Rudy Giuliani and Roger Stone) meeting with militia groups in DC in the days prior to the autocoup attempt; it also included the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene providing extraordinary tours to individuals on January 5th of the capital, during Covid. It even appears to at least extend so far as encouraging threats against Mike Pence to 'keep him in line.' At its core, the strategy was known as the Green Bay Sweep, and Navarro has basically told the public everything there is to know about the sweep, even though he says he can't tell it to the committee, or comply with their subpoena, because it is "executive privilege" (it's not privileged if you already disclosed it on Fox News, and if it was executive privilege, it is current POTUS's right to assert or waive that privilege, not any former POTUS over any sensitive issue). And more! This included pressuring Republican Secretaries of State to just find or come up with a convenient number of new votes for Trump, and even today includes trying to oust those in office who refused to cooperate with such pressure. Prosecuting documents for the Proud Boys indicate they dressed in black to be 'incognito' (possibly to appear to be Antifa) and they arranged to approach the Capitol building in the days leading up to the event, in a scattered way so as not to reveal their coordination.

    At his morning rally, Trump said publicly to Pence, "Mike Pence, I hope you're going to stand up for the good of our Constitution and for the good of our country."

    Shortly thereafter and before being gaveled in, Pence relayed the following, essentially that MAGA's interpretation of the law was wrong, that the VP does not have any power to consider fraudulent slates of electors:


    This tweet didn't take long to be TLDR'd by the crowd, and they became angry and started breaching the capital fences, about 5 mins before Pelosi gaveled the session into order. As things continued to devolve outside, Pence proceeded inside, Senator Ted Cruz sponsored an objection by a House member and the ECA proceeded as proscribed. At least until it became clear the building proceeded to being smashed into, which is when Pence was whisked away by the Secret Service and the session was suspended.

    "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution," Trump tweeted not long after it became clear that chaos had ensued. From there, aides report Trump expressed empathy with calls to "Hang Mike Pence," and it took him the bulk of several hours to come up with a public address to 'lead' the crowd to resume calm and order, a video address which reportedly had to be reshot in multiple takes, as POTUS kept forgetting to ask the rioters to remain peaceful or leave. One rioter tried to charge at an armed officer through a broken glass panel on a locked door and was killed at the scene, at least one officer protecting the Capitol later died from his injuries and 4 other officers iirc took their own lives. Hundreds have been arrested for their actions that day, ranging from simple trespassing, theft, vandalism, obstructing an official proceeding to organized charges of seditious conspiracy (ie. your criminal charge for 'insurrection')

    Following most of the days events, the Congress finally resumed late into the evening, in a tattered room, and many GOP lawmakers expressed they were "done" with Donald Trump, "Count me out" Lindsay Graham said. But in the aftermath of January 6 it apparently became clear to them that Trump still had a lot of diehard populist support, and one by one they've all come back to him, or they've been browbeat into resigning. Now prepared to offer us their counterprogramming and excuses for why January 6 isn't a big deal, or why we need to be focused on such and such distraction but not this attempt by one political establishment over the other to autocoup the effective end of the US Republic system.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Breaking: Fraudulent Electors were instructed to keep what they knew about the Sweep a secret. As part of this, they had to trick Congressional/State-Capitol security into admitting them into the building on false pretenses:

    “I must ask for your complete discretion in this process,” wrote Robert Sinners, the campaign’s election operations director for Georgia, the day before the 16 Republicans gathered at the Georgia Capitol to sign certificates declaring themselves duly elected. “Your duties are imperative to ensure the end result — a win in Georgia for President Trump — but will be hampered unless we have complete secrecy and discretion.”

    The Dec. 13, 2020, email went on to instruct the electors to tell security guards at the building that they had an appointment with one of two state senators. “Please, at no point should you mention anything to do with Presidential Electors or speak to the media,” Sinners continued in bold.



    Post edited by Overheal on


  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    isn't plotting and attempting a coup classed as treason? should be death sentences all round.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Treason is generally used as a catchall term, and the fuzziness around the offense in english law iirc is what led the framers of the US constitution to explicitly define it, one of the few offenses to be defined directly in the constitution,

    Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    Codified as 18 USC § 2381:

    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

    Certainly the Proud Boys used language like "war" etc. in their communications, but 18 US Code § 2384 is more apt (seditious conspiracy):

    If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

    Even by the plain reading though there's a lot synonymous between the 2 offenses. By levying war you've potentially committed both, but treason seems to more directly fall in with giving enemies of the state aid and comfort. The sedition implies that, you're not working with the states enemies, you're all members of the state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    Well they were backed by Putin so they definitely were working with the states enemies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If Proud Boys were indeed evidenced working with the Kremlin, yeah maybe.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unusual time to have it on isn't it? These things usually begin in the morning I would have thought. 8pm is really geared for prime time tv.

    1am our time. First hour or 2 should be interesting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭Dillonb3


    Probably to throw the Fox News evening hosts off guard on any revelations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It's also informed by the viewership for the impeachment trials, which took place during the day. The committee actually wants to get the information out to the mass public, not have it disseminated later by spin doctors, yes. I think they're also concerned with viewership during working hours.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The only chance you'd ever get of an Irish government committee sitting from 8pm to midnight would be to arrange another bank bailout



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The last time they were live from Congress this late at night with such pomp it was ... January 6. Graham seen here speaking into the 10 o'clock hour with the eyes and ears of the world

    Matt Gaetz likely knew the Proud Boys were going to be dressing in "BLACK"

    From Prosecuting Documents in the OP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    We haven't even started the hearing, Marge

    MTG claims for CSPAN audiences that Ashli Babbit wasn't at all trying to climb through a broken window on a locked door with a gun pointing at her already noooo, because, according to Marge, an evidently separate video shows Babbit 'trying to stop' people from breaking and entering. #doubt, for one. For another, who was she trying to stop from breaking and entering when she was shot in the midst of breaking and entering? She was the first person to try and go through, she wasn't stopping anyone. If 100% true, I don't see how earlier efforts to exculpate herself and others eliminates the facts about the moments leading up to her death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Solid explanation of the legal underpinnings supporting the committee's work. Republicans and their supporters have taken to trying to rules-lawyer their way into dissolving the committee on a technicality of some sort?




  • Registered Users Posts: 39,781 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Best strategy would be to lower expectations of how effective these will be and be hoping they over perform. These big moments never seen to live up to the hype.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The DOJ filed a rebuttal to Peter Navarro, who filed a continuance against the FBI . In the continuance Navarro accused the FBI of denying him access to food, water, and a call to his lawyer. He is trying to delay his arraignment and status conference on June 17.

    According to the DOJ, Navarro defaulted to calling agents 'nazis' and when they offered to call his lawyer for him, he said “I’m supposed to be on live television tonight. I’d like to call the producer and tell him I’m not going to be there. Can I have my phone?” The kicker: Navarro repeatedly told both agents, and the magistrate judge, that he was representing himself pro se.

    He's requesting a 45 day continuance when he's already been given 14 days to appoint counsel etc.

    But lying about the conditions of arrest is hardly new for MAGA here



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    True. The Democrats almost always **** these things up. Remember Mueller. Hopefully tonight will be an exception, if so I would be pleasantly surprised.

    There's no point putting this on in prime time unless they can apply a bit of charisma and energy to stop people from switching off.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bennie Thompson giving a good safe boring opening speech, let's hope Liz Chaney let's off a few fireworks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,062 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Don't think much will come of this sadly. The people who will watch are probably more than familiar with the day and those who don't will be those on the right and quite a lot of people who 18 months later don't really care . Lets see how the ratings go though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bill Barr was shown in deposition evidencing that he told Trump emphatically that the claims of a 2020 election win in his favor were "bullshit" this is a story that has played out in print media already

    Rep. Scott Perry and others sought presidential pardons from Trump after the January 6 insurrection

    Footage shown at the hearing demonstrated how Trumps tweet that "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution," etc. was the final catalyst that began the crowd incited into chants of Hang Mike Pence. Trump responded at the time that Pence "deserved it"

    Officer Caroline Edwards gave a fairly graphic testimony about the skirmish that happened that day, detailing hand to hand combat and improvised weapons including bike racks being used.

    The committee also presented a supercut of witness testimonials of capitol rioters who all explicitly indicated Trump asked them to be there.

    “Although certain former Trump officials have argued they did not anticipate violence on Jan. 6, the evidence suggests otherwise,” she said. “As you will see in our hearings, the White House was receiving specific reports in the days leading up to Jan. 6, including during President Trump’s Ellipse rally, indicating that elements in the crowd were preparing for violence at the Capitol.”

    Cheney outlined the steps, from before 'Stand Back and Stand by' to pressuring of state election officials 'Come to washington on January 6, will be wild!' to false slates of electors to 'we're marching over to the CAPITOL' to 'Mike Pence failed us'

    Cheney displayed lots of very damning evidence of seditious conspiracy and coordinated Proud Boy action.

    Edit: superb 'superlink' I found on Washington Post, here's a free link that should view through the end of June:


    Post edited by Overheal on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,643 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Watched the first hour of so of this. That 12 minute video of the riot was pretty harrowing, the Capitol Police were in hand to hand combat with the rioters for what seemed like hours. Interesting to see Ivanka pop up and say she didnt believe the election was stolen and Bill Barr said he had 3 meetings with Trump across November and December to say the same thing.

    Cheney herself came across very credibly. It will be interesting to see all the other evidence they have, especially the telephone intercepts and unseen CCTV. Right now it is looking like Trump allowed the riot to carry on for 3-4 hours before telling his supporters to go home, this was despite a rake of his advisors screaming at him to call a halt to it and some of them resigning on the spot when he didnt. When is the next installment, I think Cheney said something about next week?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,643 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    cheers. Do you know is it one 2 hour session a week or how does it go? I think it is going to last a few months?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Fox News reportedly forewent commercials for all 2.5 hours of the committee hearing - they were VERY concerned about losing viewers to the actual hearing. They spent most of the time with the hearing Picture in Picture while talking heads like Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson bloviated with figures like bullshit artist John Solomon* and others about how unfair it all was and how pointless it all is etc.

    *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Solomon_(political_commentator)#Solomon's_part_in_the_Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal

    Some light is seeping through on Bullshit MountainTM but just a little bit.

    Which you sat there the whole time say something number one you gotta accept the results of an election. Get your legal team out there. You go ahead and pursue it aggressively, responsibly. And after that, when William Barr, your greatest ally turns around and said there is nothing there.

    When your MVP Mike Pence who has with you through every step of the way said there is nothing there. When Ivanka Trump and Jared [Kushner] say we can’t see any proof that there is anything there, you turn the page and Donald Trump would probably would have 68 percent approval ratings right now ready to be Grover Cleveland, ready for four more years. Not that they can’t do that.

    Several of last nights late-night monologues were live recorded to react to the hearing



    Fox is handling it well on Youtube...

    With videos that look as whiney as the 'whining' they appear to complain about.

    But I'll bite for posterity on this one, come on creepy car salesman guy (The Chairman of CPAC, Matt Schlapp), what are the "real questions?" That's the only video title here that even attempts to present an argument, the rest just "whiiiiiiine"

    Q: 'How come Jamie Raskin can object to electors but "a retired teacher, or a mom, or a dad, or somebody, wants to go to the capitol and [attempt a coup] somehow there is something untoward about their desire to speak up? Why can't they also speak up?"

    A:


    Q: "Why did Benny Thompson say that Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz should be put on the No Fly list?"

    A: Guilty people go to Cancun :)


    A2: (A rare, paywall free link from WaPo - an exhaustive biographical article of Hawley and how we got here)

    “You have caused this!” Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) erupted at him, referring to the events building up to the storming of the Capitol, according to a person familiar with the exchange, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.


    “I feel very responsible for Josh Hawley being in the Senate. I feel terrible about it,” said former senator John C. Danforth (R-Mo.), who recently called his encouragement of Hawley’s Senate run the “greatest mistake of my life.” He added, “Josh Hawley played a central role in creating if not the darkest day in American history, one of the darkest days in American history.”

    Matt Schlapp then complained, if you are a Republican, you get "ghetto justice" which is just as absurd as it is insipid.

    Tucker Carlson then bizarrely implied Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham were 'MIA' and then shouted "shoot more Trump voters! don't they deserve representation?" All of them have had their due process.

    Matt Schlapp:

    "We all knew it was going to be a tumultuous and emotional day" asking why the Capitol Police force was, allegedly, at half strength. He cites a FOIA request for this, but I couldn't find it online. Smells like laundered bullshit.

    Basically, 'we shouldn't talk about Why Trump planned an autocoup, we should ask why they were allowed to so nearly succeed?"

    And, Trevor Noah roasted Fox in classic Daily Show fashion with a rolling montage exhibiting irony and hypocrisy




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Jake Tapper interview with Benny Thompson (Acting Committee chair - Jamie Raskin is in absentia following the suicide of one of his children, RIP)

    Thompson laid out that they have testimony that ties the Proud Boys to Trump's orbit

    THOMPSON: Well, I think obviously it was never before seen footage of what occurred. The fact that Trump’s daughter was in the video. The fact that his son-in- law in the video. The fact that a lot of the organizing aspect of the January 6 —

    TAPPER: The Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers.

    THOMPSON: We saw them in the midst of the insurrection, but we didn’t see what they were doing, organizationally before. So, we showed the meeting on the 5th in the parking lot with a group that normally they don’t.

    TAPPER: Two rival far right-wing extremist groups meeting breaking bread. Right?

    THOMPSON: That’s right.

    TAPPER: But you know what, I wonder about the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. You convincingly made the case that Trump was good for their membership. And you convincingly made the case that they were there, they thought, because Trump them to be there to undermine the election and to stop the electoral count vote — the electoral vote count. Are there going to be witnesses that describe actual conversations between these extremist groups and anyone in Trump’s orbit?

    THOMPSON: Yes.

    TAPPER: There will be?

    THOMPSON: Yes. Obviously, you have to go to the hearing, but we have a number of witnesses who come forward that people have not talked to before, that will document a lot of what was going on in the Trump orbit while all of this was occurring.

    TAPPER: So, it’s not just happenstance that they were there? That they were encouraged directly by people around.


    TAPPER: Are you building a criminal case? I know you can’t charge, but are you building a criminal case for the Justice Department, potentially to charge Donald Trump with seditious conspiracy?

    THOMPSON: Well, we are building a case based on the facts and circumstances that our investigation determined. We’ve filed with the court in California, certain aspects of what our findings have been. And the judge ruled that there were certain things that the president is guilty of that —

    TAPPER: Yes. Or could be guilty of?

    THOMPSON: Could be guilty of.

    TAPPER: Yes.

    THOMPSON: But, as you said, that’s not our job. We are there to look solely at the facts and circumstance and provide recommendations to Congress.

    Now, the Justice Department has inquired as to our sharing of our information. We expect to make that available to them at some point because this whole effort is a publicly funded endeavor. So, the public has a right to know.

    TAPPER: But would you agree with the reporting that Jamie Gangel offered earlier today, which is that you have a lot of audiences for your hearings, but there are also is Attorney General Merrick Garland as somebody that you expect and hope is watching. You are talking to him also. You are presenting a case for him to consider.

    THOMPSON: Well, we are presenting the facts to the public. I think that if the attorney general gets an opportunity to view the entirety of our records, it would be very helpful to him. But that’s in his lane.

    TAPPER: Yes.

    THOMPSON: We are not trying to confuse the two. But at some point, we do plan to cooperate, if requested. And that’s what any law-abiding citizen would want to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The burning questions, if ANTIFA actually was who perpetrated January 6:

    The worst part for me is the Arby's bag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,286 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I forgot this takeaway:

    Mike Pence was the Acting President on January 6. Trump was considered incapacitated, and the cabinet simply felt that the process to invoke the 25th was too bureaucratic when the POTUS himself had gone absent after instigating a coup. And Impeachment is even slower still.

    Abramson is correct that this presents a new legislative topic (which only reinforces the legality of the committee): codifying emergency mechanisms whereby a system is in place if a POTUS attempts an autocoup.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    They'll be lucky if Trump gets done for inciting a riot. Most Republicans are okay with Jan 6th.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭busunderer


    ^ absurd analysis from NBC



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