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January 6 Public Hearings



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,949 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    not following it, but has the appearance of a one sided show trial, its probably useful politically but ethically it certainly isnt a high-ground maneuver

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Was plotting a coup a high ground maneuver?

    When 'the other side' were willing participants in the conspiracy, there's not much you can do to alleviate the mere appearance of a one sided show trial. Republicans didn't recommend, or volunteer, anyone to the committee that wasn't already going to be part of the investigation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,807 ✭✭✭SeanW

    Who was plotting a coup? Trump gets accused of it but I actually saw his speech and he was explicitly calling for peaceful protest - unlike how the Left often both called for and carried out violence in the years 2020 and '21.

    I'm also old enough to remember how the Democrats and the Mainstream Media (although I repeat myself) assured us between 2016 and 2019 that Trump stole the 2016 election in concert with Vladimir Putin. That was a pack of lies. I'm also old enough to remember the end of 2018 when the Democrats were looking for a way to delay the nomination of Justice Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court and - oh just such a co-incidence 🙄 - along comes Christine Blaisey Ford with another pack of lies. Not only were her accusations deliberately vague so that they could not be falsified, but she lied about being afraid to fly (despite going to Hawaii every year on holidays) and the people she claimed were witnesses never attended parties with Ford and Kavanaugh, and said so despite being pressured to lie to back up Ford.

    It's difficult not perceive the January 6th hearings in the same way as the Trump-Russia hoax and the Kavanaugh-Ford hoax.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    I sense the end of Trump's political career nearing.

    Good editorials, and I agree with a most of their counterpoints, even if a lot of it is pot calling the kettle black - the GOP turned Trey Gowdy into a comic book character that was gonna lock up Hillary etc. in years past, they've made their own TV miniserieseses. And as WSJ points out, the committee still is evidencing and reporting on the "foiling" of Trump by members of the GOP and his cabinet who were NOT in on his designs. What they get right is that the hearings shouldn't be trying to convey the idea that, the RNC or GOP needs to be 'run out of town,' it would be a needless distraction to the substance.

    The editorial boards of two papers owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation published scathing op-eds in light of Thursday’s bombshell congressional hearing on the January 6 Capitol riot.

    The Evidence of the Jan. 6 Committee

    It’s a reminder of the violence and how Trump betrayed his supporters.

    The House inquiry into the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot launched its TV miniseries Thursday night, and the trick for parsing the proceedings is to keep two ideas in tension. Do Democrats want to unfairly besmirch the entire GOP with the Jan. 6 disgrace, while distracting voters from 8.6% inflation and $5-a-gallon gasoline? Yes.

    Yet did the committee offer a damning look at President Trump’s scheme to stay in office after losing the 2020 election? Also yes. Fresh video of the riot is a reminder that Jan. 6 was a brutal melee of fists and chemical sprays. “I was slipping in people’s blood,” said Capitol Police Officer Caroline Edwards. The footage is visceral, even if similar scenes were already on YouTube.

    The committee did offer some new and ugly details. “Aware of the rioters’ chants to ‘hang Mike Pence, ’” Rep. Liz Cheney said, “the President responded with this sentiment: Quote, maybe our supporters have the right idea. Mike Pence, quote, deserves it.” Who is the source of that quotation? The committee didn’t say.

    Ms. Cheney also said that Mr. Trump gave no orders to the National Guard on Jan. 6 to aid the besieged police, even as Mr. Pence was calling in the cavalry from his post at the Capitol. “There were two or three calls with Vice President Pence,” said Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, in audio testimony. “He issued very explicit, very direct, unambiguous orders.” In effect, “get the Guard down here, put down this situation.”

    Mr. Milley also spoke with White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows. “He said, we have to kill the narrative that the Vice President is making all the decisions,” Mr. Milley recalled.

    So was Mr. Pence in fact giving orders to the military, while the President watched the riot on TV and abdicated his responsibility as Commander-in-Chief? This was reported by the press soon after the riot, citing anonymous officials. But it’s something else to hear it from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

    The same goes for the testimony about Mr. Trump’s flimsy theories of undetectable mass voter fraud. “I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which I told the President was bull—,” Attorney General Bill Barr testified.

    Alex Cannon, a lawyer for the Trump campaign, recounted a conversation with Mr. Meadows: “I remember sharing with him that we weren’t finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states.” The point is that Mr. Trump was told by his own advisers that he lost the election but still deceived his supporters.

    The committee appears to be trying to build a case of “seditious conspiracy” against Mr. Trump, but here the evidence isn’t persuasive. Ms. Cheney offered no evidence that Mr. Trump communicated directly with the Oath Keepers or Proud Boys, who were the vanguard of the assault on the Capitol.

    The President spread falsehoods about the election. He invited supporters to Washington on Jan. 6, tweeting on Dec. 19 that it “will be wild!” He riled up the crowd and urged it to march on the Capitol. After violence began, he dawdled instead of sending help. Mr. Trump bears responsibility for the mayhem. But inspiring followers to march is not the same as leading a criminal conspiracy.

    One irony is that the largely Democratic committee’s evidence makes clear that Mr. Trump’s designs on overturning the election were foiled mainly by Republicans, including many in his Administration. White House lawyers threatened to resign if he fired Justice Department officials who didn’t indulge his fraud theories. GOP state legislators refused to name new electors. His judicial appointees rejected dubious fraud claims. Above all, his own Vice President stood up to Mr. Trump’s public and private pressure not to count electoral votes.

    The committee calls Jan. 6 an “attempted coup.” That makes it seem as if there was a chance of success. There wasn’t. It was an impossible plan hatched by screwballs, and it would have gone down as such if the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers hadn’t breached the Capitol. In the event, Congress still returned to fulfill its duty and count the electoral votes.

    *** [sic]

    Many Congressional Republicans dishonored themselves by voting to object to electors, even after the riot. But most of the GOP refused to go along. The person who owns Jan. 6 is Donald Trump. Remarkably, he seems to welcome this. “January 6th was not simply a protest,” he wrote Thursday on Truth Social, “it represented the greatest movement in the history of our Country to Make America Great Again.”

    Pity the people who went to Washington believing this nonsense, not least the more than 800 who have been charged with criminal offenses. Thursday’s hearing ended with video of rioters explaining their thinking, as their criminal charges flashed on the screen. “I did believe that the election was being stolen,” one man said, “and Trump asked us to come.”

    Mr. Trump betrayed his supporters by conning them on Jan. 6, and he is still doing it.

    Appeared in the June 11, 2022, print edition.

    Donald Trump, Democrats are obsessed with 2020 — GOP should look to the future

    The Jan. 6 Commission is a Democratic campaign ad, a thinly veiled partisan exercise — aired in primetime, with the cooperation of a liberal press — to bolster a failed Joe Biden presidency.

    But rather than ignore it or look to the future, Donald Trump, the King Lear of Mar-a-Lago, decided to tweet — er, Truth — yet another statement confirming that he refuses to accept reality. “January 6th was not simply a protest,” he wrote, “it represented the greatest movement in the history of our Country to Make America Great Again.”

    It wasn’t, of course. It was a national shame. One that neither Democrats nor Trump can stop obsessing over. It’s time for Republicans to move on.

    This isn’t 2016, when the country was sleepwalking toward a Hillary Clinton coronation, and Trump was the only one pugnacious enough to say it doesn’t have to be this way.

    He refused to accept that the southern border should be lawless and that China should be allowed to steal jobs. He knew, unapologetically, that the economy flourished under low taxes and little government interference. He pulled off one of the most jaw-dropping upsets in American political history, and — though the liberal media will never admit it — oversaw a term of mostly peace and prosperity.*

    But Trump has become a prisoner of his own ego. He can’t admit his tweeting and narcissism turned off millions. He won’t stop insisting that 2020 was “stolen” even though he’s offered no proof that it’s true.

    Respected officials like former Attorney General Bill Barr call his rants “nonsense.” This isn’t just about Liz Cheney. Mitch McConnell, Betsy DeVos, Mark Meadows — they all knew Trump was delusional. His own daughter and son-in-law testified it was bull.

    Trump’s response? He insults Barr, and dismisses Ivanka as “checked out.” He clings to more fantastical theories, such as Dinesh D’Souza’s debunked “2,000 Mules,” even as recounts in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin confirm Trump lost.

    Meanwhile, reports that Trump was pleased that the Jan. 6 crowd chanted for Vice President Mike Pence to be hanged — a truly reprehensible sentiment — makes him unworthy for the office. Trump can’t look past 2020. Let him remain there.

    Look forward! The 2024 field is rich. You have Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, former UN ambassador Nikki Haley … the list goes on. All candidates who embrace conservative policies without the preoccupations of the Don.

    Consider: Even if Trump, at 78, managed to win the presidency in 2024, who would work for him, now that he’s betrayed every competent person on his former staff?

    The motivations of the Democrats are purely political, but that doesn’t make the events of January 6 right. The best argument Trump’s people can cling to is that the Capitol building wasn’t properly secured. The committee would look far less partisan by scrutinizing these claims. But what’s the logic?

    You knew Trump was going to incite a mob, so you should have brought in more troops? Trump himself doesn’t deny that he wished the rioters had succeeded in overturning the election.

    Donald Trump lost in 2020. Joe Biden is a disaster as president. Both are true. The nation has been through enough pain and mismanagement for a generation. We need a fresh start.

    Tune out the Jan. 6 hearings and binge-watch the new season of “Stranger Things.” Unsubscribe from Trump’s daily emails begging for money. Then pick your favorite from a new crop of conservatives. Look to 2022, and 2024, and a new era. Let’s make America sane again.

    • *("Peace" is not "oh **** what crisis did he tweet now" every morning and night - OH)

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭Polar101

    What's the point of these hearings? You'd have to have a functional democracy in order for any kind of justice to be served. This hearing is in a country which has 2 parties - who both think the others are loonies, so it's hard to see any useful outcome. Trump was impeached a couple of times, and it didn't seem to harm him in any way, so neither will this show.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Shoog

    He lost .... not harmed in any way ?

    Its very rare in America for a President not to get a second term. He screwed up in a big way and he lost despite the decades of Republican gerrymandering. You may imagine that all the noise and bluster means he's widely popular - he's popular among a hardcore sect of people who have been dreaming of a civil war since they lost the last one.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,275 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha

    7 Democrats and 2 Republicans. It's not wrong to say one sides but when one of two parties embraces fascism, it doesn't leave a lot of viable alternatives.

    Trump has lived a life escaping the consequences of his actions. This will probably not be any different. It'd be great to see the grubby little nazi be held accountable but I don't see it happening.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Another late-night monologue or two this time from live thursday night

    I'll include Fallon for completeness but he pre-recorded his show seemingly, and he is kind of cringeworthy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,643 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha

    jesus there really is no depth too low for Matt Gaetz to stoop down in to

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,653 ✭✭✭✭briany

    Two things that come across my Youtube feed almost every weekday is Jimmy Kimmel's opening monologue and Seth Meyers' A Closer Look, both of which lately deal almost exclusively with the ongoing clusterf*ck that is American politics and Trump v. democracy. Even though I agree with most everything they say, it just shows how politically charged the media landscape has become in America over the last 10 years where it's all over their late-night shows. SNL as well.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭Ahwell

    If the committee concludes that Trump committed a crime what happens then?

  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tooka

    Bizarre to see how bad American politics has gone, to see such hatred and anger and delusional behaviour is sad to watch.

    its sad to witness the fall of such a great country, but since 1988 the quality of American presidents and politicians has gotten worse year on year.

    there is not one politician left in America that is not bought and paid for, whether It be China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, big corporations, big unions.

    Take lynne Cheney, her dad is a complete war hawk who started two pointless wars which killed millions, created millions of refugees and ultimately made the Middle East an even more dangerous area.

    this woman stands 100% behind her father actions, and this is new hero of the anti trump crowd, you could not make it up.

    the democrat and republican parties are now a joke - trump, Biden, pelosi, meadows, Jordan, McCarthy, the squad, wtf ? A bunch of dangerous oafs and imbeciles.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,643 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Shoog

    There was a decision made by the Republican party to stand against social progress, it happened back in Reagans time when they decided to court the religious and the racists as their main constituency. Once that decision was made they were captured by the atavistic regressive tendancies latent in a country made up of religious refugees from Europe. Reason went out of politics from that day forward.

    As far as I am concerned, both the constitution of America and the politics of fear have doomed America to a day of re-conning. If justice is metered out to Trump and his cronies it will just feed the doom frenzy of the fanatics who have captured the narrative of American life.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    The second day of hearings will begin at the top of the hour. All networks are to be carrying it now - including Fox News.

    Trump former campaign manager Bill Stepien was reported to testify today but he backed out this morning following a “family emergency.” Instead his counsel/attorney will appear in his stead to present statements

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    My apologies for not looking into it earlier: Stepien's family emergency was his wife going into labor. Congrats

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,949 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    this "process" just looks like another 'ol Dem hoax.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,949 ✭✭✭✭silverharp

    Running kangaroo courts is something a fascist government would do and ironically a US government doing this is an ethical reason to overthrow it (not a recommendation). The Dems need to cop on, they only need to be a normal party and they would do quite well but they are like the Amber Heard of the political world over the last few years.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,578 ✭✭✭✭astrofool

    Should the Jan 6th riots and attempt to overturn election results be investigated or not?

    It's unusual that a country would let the party who instigated such an action also preside over it, but that was what was happening until the GOP pulled the plug and even at that, the committee still has GOP representation.

    People assaulted the capitol building of the USA, of course it warrants this, to say otherwise is disingenuous, it essentially means that people could do whatever they wanted to the democratic process and no action would be taken against them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Doesn't a Kangaroo Court require some ability to adjudicate, indict, convict, sentence?

    This is neither, this is a Congressional Hearing.

    Here's another "Kangaroo Court."

    I ask again if you have any elaborative or specific grievances with the select committee, or is this all just empty nothing talk?

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Fmr. Acting AG Donohue's recorded testimony is damning to election hoaxers.

    His own AG and Acting AG did due diligence on even the thinnest accusations of election fraud - listen as he describes going through one such allegation after the other, like a PA Truck driver who thought he had inadvertently transported fraudulent ballots. The AG sent agents to investigate both the loaders and unloaders of the truck, etc. and not supported by the evidence etc. as well as other incidents like an alleged suitcase swap of ballots in GA, dead people voting and other theories. Timestamped:

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken

    FFS Of course the. Yank overheel spamming with american politics crap it's not bad enough to keep it on the trump Biden threads maybe go and play on the yanks version of boards we have enough crap to be dealing with in Irish politics. CA forum is beyond a joke at this stage

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭francois

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭kingtiger

    @snake, did someone piss in your cornflakes?

    Have to say I am enjoying the sh1tshow inside of Trumps administration, keep it up Overheal

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump

    Lot of excitement on this thread, it could finally lead to the big scary orange man going to prison.

  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    The day after the Capitol Riot, Trump/Eastman were still pursuing election hoaxes.

    "I said to him, 'are you out of your effing mind,'" Herschmann told the committee about his conversation with [John] Eastman. "'I only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth for now on: orderly transition.'"

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,275 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha

    Trump should be held accountable for fomenting an insurrection. Dismissing it as a kangaroo court is just partisan.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,283 ✭✭✭✭Overheal

    Trump seems to have watched the hearings.

    And he's not the only one

    I thought it was interesting he all but admits in writing to trying to solicit witnesses to record their testimony for him so he can interfere with an ongoing investigation.