organic farming

JohnChadwick · 23-05-2022 09:39PM

Has anyone used the supersoil product?

Birdnuts · 23-05-2022 09:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104043#Comment_119104043

Thats right - the great Tommy Earley on the shores of Lough Allen. Uses them to run the heating/lighting too😎

24-05-2022 12:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104583#Comment_119104583

That sounds interesting, does he do farm walks or is there a video online

24-05-2022 12:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104552#Comment_119104552

Sounds bogus, turns sand in to soil etc

Birdnuts · 24-05-2022 01:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105194#Comment_119105194

He sure does - the organic society would be your first contact for info on any up and coming ones

roosterman71 · 24-05-2022 12:13PM

Stumbled across this today

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10847487/How-worlds-organic-farm-nation-led-hunger-economic-ruin-writes-TOM-LEONARD.html

It's madness to switch to organics in one go and not transition across.

Siamsa Sessions · 24-05-2022 02:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106481#Comment_119106481

Madness at farm level and madness at national level

JohnChadwick · 24-05-2022 05:14PM

Dunno, often see that Sri Lankan rice farming caper bandied about on the irish farmers facebook group and what not. Surely rice farming in Sri Lanka is a very different ball game to an extensive suckler operation in the west of Ireland though. Anyway that's neither here nor there.

24-05-2022 05:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108217#Comment_119108217

It would be, but it's still unwise to do a 180 systems change over night, never mind in a year.

JohnChadwick · 24-05-2022 11:19PM

Wonder if there's any better examples out there than rice farming in Sri Lanka to emphasise that though.

24-05-2022 11:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109819#Comment_119109819

Tons in regenerative farming, more stories of evolution than revolution. Literally all of the experienced voices say change over time, as opposed to over night. Like cutting fertiliser by 50% this year, another 50% next year and so forth.

JohnChadwick · 25-05-2022 09:29AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109851#Comment_119109851

Have seen that Sri Lanka organic rice farming story being used a fair bit on social media with the narrative seemingly being implied 'look at what happens if you change systems too quickly'.

Just really doesn't sound like it should be the country or crop that organic irish (suckler) farming should be held up against.

roosterman71 · 25-05-2022 09:37AM

I don't think Irish farming is being held up against it. The point is that the change should be gradual and not done in one go. We can see in conventional farming this year the impacts of less chemical fertiliser being used with yields expected to be down. Imagine then going full organic in one go. It has to be done bit by bit and the prices have to rise bit by bit then too.

JohnChadwick · 25-05-2022 10:18AM

Yea not everyone can be organic.

But if a high percent of west of Ireland suckler farmers get certified organic in the morning it surely won't buckle the food production system given they are so extensive.

25-05-2022 10:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119110661#Comment_119110661

I've seen that happen too, it's being used out of ignorance.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2022 10:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119110863#Comment_119110863

It will not effect the overall organic beef market. However where will the demand for all these organic weanling come from. Where will the buyers appear from in October and November for these cattle. Will it be an option to carry until yearlings.

It could become similar to the calf sales in March and April

Cran · 25-05-2022 10:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119114704#Comment_119114704

Believe this is the problem with lamb, there aren’t organic finishers or enough anyway and vast majority of organic store lamb are sold conventionally. Guess same thing could happen with beef, but prob less likely as more organic beef finishers I believe.

25-05-2022 11:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119114704#Comment_119114704

They'll be sold as conventional, product demand isn't a concern in a box ticking exercise to say X'000 farmers are registered organic, are we best boys in class yet?

That's not a criticism of organics, but best recognise what's occurring.

Bass Reeves · 25-05-2022 11:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119114993#Comment_119114993

The problem is if you get nothing extra for them you are probably eating into your organic payment. If that happens there is no advantage over a normal system. The extra costs involved and possible lower weights mean you are worse off than being conventional.

25-05-2022 11:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115014#Comment_119115014

Sure, but that's the farmers problem, not the politician with the agenda nor the civil servant charged with implementing it.

Birdnuts · 26-05-2022 01:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115014#Comment_119115014

I guess you would have to take into account the higher input costs of a conventional system, especially the more intensive versions. I like to think I operate a happy halfway house in that regards via minimising such inputs as much as possible without currently being fully organic

26-05-2022 01:30PM

For me there is a very strong case to push beef cattle that can finish off grass.

Look at the facts:

1 Meal is becoming more and more expensive

2 Grain production for cattle is a waste of land that could be used for alternatives

3 Domestic breeds (To these islands) like Hereford and Angus produce tastier meat. Dexter and speckled peck are good as well. These breeds flesh easily. They are also a lot more efficient at grass. Even a cross on those breeds get the benefit

4 Marketing- grass fed beef

5 The cumulative effect of 1 to 4 will reduce carbon emissions

26-05-2022 01:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115014#Comment_119115014

Organic beef is seriously good value at super market compared to organic chicken

minerleague · 26-05-2022 08:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115187#Comment_119115187

Any harm to ask why not go organic? Would be lightly stocked here to keep costs down also, would be in that group of farmers who are 80 -90 % organic who the Dept are targeting to join.

Easten · 26-05-2022 09:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116938#Comment_119116938

I'm going into organics myself but cannot agree with what you are saying, and you cannot say they are facts as they are not.

1: For a start meal has always been expensive, it's price relative to the sale price of beef does not altered much if at all.

2: The majority of Grain production is for cattle feed or Bio fuels. Not all grains are fit for anything other than feeding cattle with. By feeding Grain to cattle you are converting a low protein food to a very high protein food. At the end of the day even if all grain grown could be used for breads or pasta's we would become very unhealthy. The world would get full of people walking about with big Bread belly's in front of them. We need protein in our diet and beef is by far the cheapest way to get it

3: Native breeds are not better converters of feed, some of them are very poor converters. I've seen 3 year old+ native breeds raised as Organic beef, many of them are no bigger than a Goat

4 :Marketing grass fed is fine as long as they are Grass fed. Again many of the cattle in Irish feedlots and on many farms not suitable for fattening cattle are finishing them on adlib grain and Maize meal

5: Not true for reasons 1-4

26-05-2022 10:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119243#Comment_119119243

On No.3, cattle goats suit a lot of places as they won't wreck the ground and often can be out wintered, horses for courses, if ya don't spend it you don't have to be worrying about making it back.

Birdnuts · 26-05-2022 10:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119104#Comment_119119104

I probably will eventually, got an off farm day job atm but hope to be winding down from that in the coming years so can devote more time and energy to the place. Currently in Erris(North Mayo) there are a number of EIP schemes being rolled out on Machair Grassland, Corncrakes, Yellow Bumble bee etc. so busy doing the paper work on them and planning those measures atm.

Bass Reeves · 26-05-2022 11:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116951#Comment_119116951

It might be but that dose not necessarily mean there is much chance for extra margin for the farmer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119243#Comment_119119243

The biggest issue with finishing cattle is to get a fat cover on them. It can be much harder to get cover on Continental cattle. Grass fed beef is where the profit is for the smaller farmer.

All the processor's show nice glossy pictures with cattle at grass. There will probably be a grass fed cattle scheme with 2-3 years

Organic payment is about 3.4 k after conversion. It's not going to make a Suckler farm any more profitable IMO. What ever you gain on the swings you will lose on the rounds.

While organics might get you another 5ish years at suckler's it's a one way road on profitability.

I think it all depends on your land. If you have marginal or hill land ya sucklers or sheep may be your only answer. As well you may have the land area to have a decent organic payment( 70HA by 170 euro) 11.9k and the ability to draw a maximum GLAS/ REAP payment.

However if you have fairly decent land and average acerage bany drystock to beef system will probably beat the pants off the 3-4 k organics payment.

A lad running a 20-25 unit calf to beef system on 50ish acres is capable of making a 1k/ unit margin at present.

26-05-2022 11:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119243#Comment_119119243

I finish a good amount of cattle every year and in my experience:

Angus and Hereford cattle can be finished off grass, I take your point that there are poor examples of Angus and Hereford cattle but decent quality Angus or Hereford can get away off grass. You’d be keeping limo or charlaois longer.

A freisian or continental bullock would need 5 kg * 49 days to get away. That’s a quarter ton of meal.

I have to disagree with you on carbon. If you get your Angus or Hereford at 24 months v a freisian at 30 months or continental at 27 months then it’s easy to see which are producing more emissions.

Continentals also have a 5 day longer gestation, more inefficient.

I don’t know about feeding ad lib meal to poor cattle in feed lots, I think it’s a mugs game. I have seen cattle pounding through meal in sheds and all you can smell is meal. No way is that natural, produce quality meat or good for the environment. They would be better off at grass with a handy amount of meal.

Taste wise I would go for Hereford, Dexter or Angus over continentals.

Easten · 27-05-2022 12:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119831#Comment_119119831

All the figures from ICBF tell a completely different story. According to them the top feed converters are Continentals, not 1 traditional native breed animal in the top 250 breeding bulls. Which explains why a Huge amount of continentals are finished at 18-22 months.

Taste is subjective but the big super market chains like the Tescos and Dunnes are selling meat from mainly O grade cattle which are WH X FR or AA X FR or holsteins an FR cattle. It's not great tasting at times and can be very tough.

Compare that to the meat from the local Butchers who use 24-30 month heifer beef from continental stock

organic farming

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