Fall of the Catholic Church

The people who are delighted that the catholic church has fallen, what is you view of christianity in general? Are you hoping it all falls or something?

There's too much to respond to there, some good conversation but too large.

I think I've made my position clear about how people behave and how they are controlled. We believe people are different.

To the single point you raise about science replacing religion and it's impact, well, I only see that as reinforcing my point.

There are reams of scientific knowledge, yet people, in very large numbers just outright ignore it. Climate science, biology, physics, doesn't matter what science says or not, people just don't care. What they want to believe, and what they are told to believe, are all that matters.

There's no enlightenment coming. Religion is intrinsic to society. Belief trump's all. People drank bleach because it was popular. Enough said!

What did the Romans ever do for us? Mmmm ... they left us art, architecture, literature, law, a system of government that we've pretty much copied. The list goes on. That aside. They also left us a church that sets itself above national laws when it suits. Avoids liability for it's actions whenever possible and even when the majority of citizens seek and obtain legislative change in the fields of divorce, abortion, IVF, euthanasia etc., it still tries to get these laws changed. Bearing in mind that the church itself has been seen to hold itself separate from national law when it is in it's interest to do so. This is further illustrated by the church being totally unaccountable to it's own membership.

So, we have a church that sees itself as above the State, unaccountable to it's own membership and somehow also feels it has the right to dictate to society what ought to be done in terms of human reproduction, family structure etc etc.

It isn't all that different from a multinational corporation.

Read thread title. Fall of the catholic church.

Start a new thread about that other religion if you like.

Mary revered while every other pregnant teenage girl was locked up in forced slave labour washing the smelly jocks and socks of the big men who made the rules.

Second class citizens? Not even near it.

What you quoted said the same thing only in one line.

The church is a large organisation with traits of a large organisation. It's hardly news. It's been like that for nearly two thousand years they claim.

That's what happened when Irish people got involved.

Again the same.

You've literally described the definition

Western culture revolves around concepts that come from Ancient Greek and Roman Civilisation and several other influencing pre Christian societies - politics, democracy, concepts behind legal systems, language, writing, science, technology...

Modern European civilization is largely defined in the enlightenment, not by religious philosophy.

In reality when Europe was at its least progressive and its worst were eras of extreme Christian dogma - the dark ages, the inquisition etc

Compare pre and post revolutionary France? Dogmatic Catholic society with an absolute monarchy vs one of the first attempts at secularisation and modernity firmly embedded in enlightenment values.

Most of our modern rights and freedoms come from a very secular concept of natural law and the sense that humans have essential rights because they exist, think and are humans basically, rather than deriving those from a deity.

Christianity claims a lot of things...

Yet look at the middle East with it's predominant religion and where they are now.

Change Christianity to Islam as the driving force in Europe through the ages and you'd have a completely different civilisation now. Religion is the centrepoint of it all, and we are where we are due to religion.

Christianity went though similarly horrendouly oppressive eras murdering heritics, burning people at stakes, various highly aggressive wars to force convert people, literal witch hunts, the Inquisition, stamping on science and sending things backwards.

What saved Europe was reason, not religious dogma.

Yep, and they're all pompous idiots.

I do what I'm told only if it's law. Or I'm being paid within the boundaries of law.

Im one of those who still goes to Mass, over the years ive seen plenty of positives from the Church , id two uncles in London whod have been dead twenty years earlier only for Irish priests helping them stay someway right with housing etc. Our local parish had one or two very community based types who got a fabulous community centre built. Of course there were bad types in the church but there was a share of good stuff too which people seem quick to dismiss.

Im quite content to get away from a busy life for an hour each week in my local church , meet a few neighbours , say a few prayers till the following weekend, quite calming and i find my faith good for my own mental health if im been honest.