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Fall of the Catholic Church



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    The fall of the Catholic Church in Ireland as a social system with political power.

    But Irish people were becoming atheists in the 1960s and it was ultimately that, and not this or that scandal, that did it for Christianity in Ireland imo.

    Otherwise people could have joined other Christian churches, set up a new Christian church from scratch or demanded a cleansing/reformation of the CC from the clergy.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    Sure. But my point is that robotic social conformity is not a good reason to be a Christian. Nor is it a good reason to be an atheist and political liberal.

    People should read the Gospel of John and decide for themselves what to believe rather than claiming that their thoughts and actions are a second-hand reaction to corrupt institutions and leaders that they have no control over.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr

    The rise of the church of our lady of Dublin 4

    They're nearly as bad as the previous lot

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,273 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    Great point. It was the growing atheism made the exposure of the scandal possible not the other way round.

    As for this new bishop he seems to have very little self awareness as to why the Ivory tower is crumbling in his little sob story speech

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    "The sanitised John gospel is unlikely to be a good representation of the Church's ideology."


    I'm not advocating for "the Church's ideology".

    The Gospel of John is a short memoir of someone who knew Jesus Christ and recounts his actions, things he said and what happened to him. Its a starting point for anyone who is open to becoming a Christian (which doesn't include you, I guess).

    A person's beliefs shouldn't hinge on the actions of some other person or people (a bishop in Galway or whatever) who they can't control. That's the point I'm making.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭ downtheroad

    Good luck lads, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    Admonishment is pointless since everyone understands that Christian doctrine can't be altered to make it "gay-friendly". Therefore it can only be tolerated or persecuted, so its tolerated.

  • It seems like multiple buzz words to imply it is just some leftist agenda against the church. Woke is gonna be exclaimed shortly.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭ downtheroad

    Well not for much longer reading than article. A slow persecution by people choosing to move away from the organisation.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,815 ✭✭✭ growleaves

    You can control people's actions but not their thoughts. I don't know what coercing people to simulate openness to things that are against their deepest beliefs is meant to achieve.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭ donaghs

    Lots of hypocrites coming out of the woodwork now:

    "“It was seismic. The Bishop Casey affair! The beginning of the end of trust in mitred men. Eamonn Casey’s big, blustering personality had seemed endearingly chummy to many people,” said former president, Mary McAleese this week."

    I'm fairly sure McAleese was a staunch Catholic in 1992, and beyond. Its only in the last few years she's the Catholic who doesn't like the Catholic Church.

    The Catholic Church isn't the only religion/institution in Ireland. I think we need to analyse what we don't like about it, and prevent that from happening in other areas of life again. now, and in the future.

    Not allowing "sacred cows" to be above investigation. e.g. successful swimming coaches.

    Don't tolerate intolerance to women and gay people, e.g. mainstream Islam (Clonskeagh, etc) goes far beyond the Catholic Church in this regard.

    Don't allow one organization/doctrine have a commanding position to preach their views to everyone else, and refuse to engage in debate, effectively denouncing anyone who disagrees with them as heretics or sinners.

  • Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭ HazeDoll

    "... but we are still here."

    Things that hang around long after you have tried to get rid of them:


    Japanese knotweed.

    Unpleasant neighbours.


    Posters here have condemned an organisation that oppressed and abused on a global scale while claiming to be a moral authority. You accuse these posters of 'virtue signalling.' Surely you can see why that is ridiculous. I know that people of a theological bent are adept at the sort of cognitive backflips that would scramble the rest of us for life, but you can surely see the hypocrisy in your statement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,273 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    Who were these key catholics reporting the scandal. Are we talking catholics or baptised people ?

    Because practically everyone in Ireland was "catholic" and no one is denying there are terrible people who are atheists.

    It's you who is trying to paint the "good German" myth as if it was the church itself led the change.

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