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Fall of the Catholic Church

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    #332
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038520#Comment_119038520

    Give me a break.

    Give you a break over what? Arguing against points that I didn't make? Just so that you can repeat the same things you posted previously. Just as you've avoided the points I made...

    so why should I give you a break, or bother my ass at all? I wrote a long, very long post in response to yours and you've ignored all of it.

    So.. nope... I can't be bothered even slightly to continue this.



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    #333
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039577#Comment_119039577

    Why would anyone continue to work for and support a broken and morally bankrupt institution? There are plenty of other avenues to carry out the good work they do without support the church. WE have seen that charity can be done without religion, that community can be done without religion. So what good work are they doing that not only cannot be done outside of the catholic church but is worth suspending your own morals in order to do so? Is feeding the homeless through a catholic charity, rather than a non catholic one, really worth the abuse of children?

    Some within religion do indeed take a vow of poverty, again there are many outside of catholic that devote their lives to others. But the church itself, as an institution, is not about poverty and giving to the poor. It is about money and power. Visit the vatican and, while it really is amazing, it is also deeply troubling why it is there in the first place. Why Bishops have these big houses. The cost of building churches. All that comes out of the pockets of normal people. And in the past many times this meant that some really poor people were making sacrifices to hand over some of their meagre funds to the church.



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    #334
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039657#Comment_119039657

    Many posters on here have been at pains to point out that religion of itself is not bad. Catholic is a particular form of religion that has caused many issues and has a lot of sins to answer for. Pointing out the issues, rather than looking to hide them, control them and pressure those involved to stay quiet, is not bashing religion. It is looking for the truth and some accountability.

    When an institution claims to be the moral leaders of the world, it isn't really too much to ask that they should look to actually live by those morals. Those pointing out the hypocrisy of the church are not the problem, it is the church's own hypocrisy.



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    #335
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039664#Comment_119039664

    Same thing. Cancelling any opinion than everything, and everyone connected to Catholic church is bad and abusive. For many people their only contact was baptism. But they are associated regardless based on that dogma.



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    #336
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039023#Comment_119039023

    No, I didn't raise the value of the mass to anyone. You really need to track points made. You keep interjecting points as if I've made them, and then, deciding to argue with yourself.

    As for the letter from mammy, they're still minors.. I'm sure you have no issue with the need to have signed approval for a wide range of other activities, but having to get one letter to say that their parents approve of not going to mass is unreasonable. Rubbish. You make it sound like such a terrible act to do. Get a letter from the parents. Whooptie do.



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    #337
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,511 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039611#Comment_119039611

    The catholic religion preachers that those that fail to believe will be held eternally accountable and suffer in hell for their behaviour. That making a mistake in getting married, leading to divorce, is such a sin that they cannot be married in a church again. That we are all born sinners due to actions of a couple thousands of years ago.

    Claiming that they are being treated unfairly for the actions, and inactions, of the past is a bit rich.



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    #338
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,274 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039763#Comment_119039763

    They are not the same thing and nobody has been cancelled. The Catholic Church have lost some of their power which can only be a good thing



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    #339
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,274 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039765#Comment_119039765

    Why should mass be an opt-out? What educational value does it provide?



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    #340
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039813#Comment_119039813

    The only answer you'll accept is it has no value. What would be the point of engaging.



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    #341
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039736#Comment_119039736

    Well since I can't talk about any positives that people might see in the Catholic religion, or draw parallel comparisons it's impossible to reply to that. So I'm not ignoring you by not answering that.

    Even non "religious" charities operate as businessnes. They have operating costs. They have buildings, they have vehicles.

    While you can go off on a tangent about how Rome and Vatican has ancient history buildings, I cannot, I'll be shut down. I've been told quite clearly my narrow term of reference is the Catholic Church in Ireland. That is clearly not what happened in another country.



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    #342
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039755#Comment_119039755

    Likewise I can't talk about religion in general, other than the catholic church and the bad things it done.



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    #343
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039813#Comment_119039813

    So, you would like me to defend a point I didn't make?



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    #344
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039904#Comment_119039904

    You expressed an opinion. You have to defend the entirety of 2000 yrs of catholic history worldwide, and that song about the lovely horse.



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    #345
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039611#Comment_119039611

    That's one of the weakest attempts I've ever seen to shut down criticism of child molesters.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #346
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm done. This is group monologue not a discussion or even a forum.



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    #347
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039653#Comment_119039653

    Power, money and access to children.

    Same for all religions.



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    #348
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040112#Comment_119040112

    More whataboutery.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #349
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040050#Comment_119040050

    It is interesting that you feel that way. Honestly, that's probably how many people feel when they deal with the Church. Individual members looking for dialogue with the church get, 'these are the rules. Follow them, cough up 10% of your earnings in tithes and don't ask questions. Oh and don't question what we do. We can do what we like' Never mind State institutions getting stonewalled when they request information and documents about church actions etc.

    Again, it boils down to credibility and accountability.



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    #350
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040119#Comment_119040119

    Nope.

    RC cult always wants access to children, always wants money, always wants power over people’s lives, in healthcare and education and over politicians and the judiciary.



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    #351
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040140#Comment_119040140

    "Same for all religions".

    Prove it.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #352
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040154#Comment_119040154

    If you're arguing that those are unique traits for the CC, then it really shows us much you're blinded by your hatred. Those are the traits of every ideology that seeks dominance, not just religions.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #353
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040175#Comment_119040175

    So nothing then. Ok.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #354
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040140#Comment_119040140

    There is a difference between The Church (as a administrative, political, leadership) and the religion (as a faith) or even those who follow the religion.

    While I would agree that The Church wants power/authority, there's really no basis to claim the remainder for those following the religion as either priests or as worshippers (who would be included in your general "cult" description). Most clergy (in modern times) end their lives, not in riches, but completely dependent on the Church to provide for them. Which is why most of them are living in Church controlled old-folks/retirement homes, and the general conditions wouldn't be particularly good (I've visited relations who live in these institutions and most of them are simply places where people go to die).

    I suspect most posters here have no real comprehension of the types or the standards of living that most clergy live in. Many of the Church orders have vows towards poverty or the abandonment of wealth, which is reflected in pretty basic living standards. That the higher ups or the princes of the church live in luxury doesn't change that. As much as you want it to.

    There is too much vague generalised nonsense on this thread... clearly showing irrational hate or contempt.. because there is no real effort to distinguish between the Church, the religion as a faith, and those who follow that faith. Instead, the abuses and negatives are applied across the board. All are guilty. All are judged irrespective of their circumstances. Collective guilt applied.



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    #355
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040154#Comment_119040154

    That you would accept the statement for the RCC, but defend other religions is rather telling.

    It's a ridiculous claim to make about any religion. Unless people want to dumb down everything to the most simplistic and inaccurate way possible.



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    #356
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,733 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040120#Comment_119040120

    People not in the church seem to have more vastly more involvement with it (especially if they are paying 10% tithes to the Irish Catholic Church) then those actually in it.

    And this isn't directed at you because I quoted you. But yes this thread reminds me exactly of how the church shuts down criticism and inquiry. Its the same mechanism. IMO.



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    #357
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,274 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039904#Comment_119039904

    You seem OK with it being opt-out.



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    #358
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,274 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040231#Comment_119040231

    There is nothing irrational in having disgust towards the Catholic Church



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    #359
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users Posts: 8,792 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119037689#Comment_119037689

    Brady went all the way to Cardinal and never once thought to address the fact that a monster was abusing children in different parishes for 2 more decades. One of the victims committed suicide. Brady didn't inform the Gardai either. How many more Smyths are still out there? Brady wasn't even sanctioned by Rome for his inaction. Again I ask, where was the internal agitation? How many priests knew about Smyth? Loads I imagine.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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    #360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040259#Comment_119040259

    I'm fine with participation or exposure to religion being a choice.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040265#Comment_119040265

    Nor did I say it was. Go on, scroll back and quote me saying that. No reading between the lines. Where did I say that exactly?

    However, I'm getting the strong feeling that such distinctions aren't encouraged on this thread, otherwise why would you work so hard to avoid them?



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    #361
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,274 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040371#Comment_119040371

    if you are fine with participation or exposure to religion being a choice then you have should not issue with its removal from schools. if people want to participate they have that choice.

    you are the one ignoring distinctions. criticism of the catholic church is not blanket criticism of it's members. there have been individual members criticised for their actions . that all seems appropriate to me and not at all irrational.



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