License granted but moderator refused

musashie · 19-04-2022 10:34am #1

License granted but moderator refused. Anyone any thoughts on this.

Gave plenty of good reasons for the moderator for 308 Health/Safety. Consideration for farm animals. etc etc

Any thoughts. Can I pay for license an Post and appeal decision or should I hold off on license till I appeal.

Thanks.

LIFFY FISHING · 19-04-2022 11:25am

What area are you ?

I hear that Wexford has an issue now with supressors both been granted and refused on renewals 😐

Grizzly 45 · 19-04-2022 11:49am

1st time application for the Silencer?Or had it previously?

musashie · 19-04-2022 1:33pm

First time application on both.

Cass · 19-04-2022 4:42pm

Pay for the license and appeal it at the same time or later. You have 28 or 30 days to pay for the license so get that out of the way firstly.

What reasons were given, by you, for seekign it?

What reason(s) were given for the refusal of it?

Soupy2 · 20-04-2022 2:22am

I’m most likely facing the same thing I’ll know this week when the license is issued. Asked my RFD about it after the interview.

He said people get the license and go back and ask the guards to confirm they’re willing to accept liability for future hearing loss due to the lack of moderator as user needs to maintain awareness etc. so ear muffs are out.

that solves the issue your firearm dealer would prbly have the best advise if he is in your area

deeksofdoom · 20-04-2022 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949802#Comment_118949802

Never heard the bit about asking the Guards to confirm that they are willing to accept liability for hearing loss, but it sounds good. Do you know if this has actually worked?

Grizzly 45 · 20-04-2022 12:50pm

He said people get the license and go back and ask the guards to confirm they’re willing to accept liability for future hearing loss due to the lack of moderator as user needs to maintain awareness etc. so ear muffs are out.

OH, LORD!!!! Be laughed out of court and any solicitors office you walked into with that case. It's not like you are [1] forced to go shooting as part of your employment so you are not continuously affected by it every day [2]Hearing loss can and is caused by a heck of a lot more environmental and health/age factors.

So it would be very hard to prove you lost your hearing just by gunshot alone. EG you live at the end of a runway of an airport and like going to death metal concerts,and work on chainsaws and Harley Davidson motorbikes In your 70's!😁

There is enough info out here already to get your can on noise reduction points. Most serious is the EU and Irish legislation of the reduction of noise AT SOURCE, and that wearing of PPE is a poor second best, and only when there is no other option to reduce this noise. You can also point out that AGS [traffic corps] is big into this legislation when it comes to boy racer's modifications of removing or modifying their silencers on their cars,as it being a nuisance noise,so why is it a problem with firearms that much?

Also,IF you can prove your farmer/landowner contracted you to cull a certain species off their land, you could claim its part-time employment, and therefore subject to the Health & Safety regulations at work. Ergo the noise reduction at the source does apply. Be a much better legal argument to present to the Super.😉

Mellor · 20-04-2022 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118951159#Comment_118951159

This would be my approach also.

The “user needs to maintain awareness” angle is not great as ear plugs have some a long way since the yellow foam. Impluse plugs block high volume noises, but let through quiet noises.

Even better, tactical earbuds block loud noises and enhance quiet noises. Which sounds very useful.

Soupy2 · 20-04-2022 10:22pm

I’m relaying what I was told apparently it worked fine for others.

No need to be so dismissive, Noones talking about going to courts

I am the farmer and the purpose is vermin control so would be subject to H&S at work angle

Grizzly 45 · 21-04-2022 1:01pm

Scuttlebutt and gunshop talk has caused us more problems than legislation sometimes.If this was the case, I'm sure your source has a name and date or even a location as to where whoever was browbeat a Superintendent into this decision? As this would be groundbreaking news for every Irish gunowner.

It's sad but true, we have had more misinformation coming from our own and gun dealers as well that have got people into all sorts of bother betimes too. This would be one good example. Not saying it didn't happen, or could happen, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it either .

Sorry if it comes over as being dismissive.it's not, it's being realistic when having dealt with personally helping others about these applications. That claiming hearing loss from gunfire and making the AGS responsible by not issuing a permit for a silencer is too left of field, as it is just too easily shot apart by anyone. All the super has to say ist" Ok, get me a report from someone in medical authority on hearing loss, that states a casual gun owner and hunter, has suffered irreparable loss of hearing by not using a silencer, as the single source of his hearing impairment and I'll issue it straight away then!" Not potential loss, but actual loss!"

Also,IF this story is true it means we are all utterly sorted as AGS is then accepting the responsibility of potential damage to every gun owner's hearing by NOT issuing permits for silencers. That would be an utter first in Ireland when you consider how people with provable terminal and life-changing medical conditions caused by state body negligence have to fight toot&nail in the courts for compensation and recognition?

Your best bet is using the legislation and good reasons to convince your Super,not gunshop gossip.

musashie · 21-04-2022 2:32pm

Truth in everything most have mentioned. A super is under zero obligation to grant anything really. At the end of the day he is covering himself. Antagonising him is not a good idea, in my opinion. Appreciate all the info.

Rescueme0007 · 24-04-2022 3:19pm

My experience (this year) in seeking a moderator, was that the licence was approved but lacked the S on it when received. Followed up with the Inspector. It was an admin error, once the inspector gave it some attention new licence issued with the S and good to go. It's not clear from your account if you were provided with a reasoned explanation for the refusal (if refusal it was). You are entitled to the reasoned explanation under the Commissioners Guidelines. If you didn't receive such a written response then likely it's only an administrative error. Contact the appropriate Inspector and express your disappointment in a civil and courteous fashion and ask for the reasons for refusal. That's all I did, spoke with the chap and as soon as he had the chance it was redressed. If your the landowner I'd be very surprised if they intended to decline your request.

ganmo · 24-04-2022 5:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969866#Comment_118969866

Ditto. I rang the local firearms garda and he asked was I sure I had the box ticked, couple weeks later new license with S was sent out

Mellor · 26-04-2022 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956062#Comment_118956062

I'm sure somebody brought up liability to a super at some point. And the super may have even subsequently issued the moderator license. But that's doesn't mean that he issued it because they siad that, and it also doesn't mean the garda would have actually been liable.

It would be ripped apart in court as you said. Furthermore, that scenario being true would be much worse. Shooter applys for a mod. Plays the liability card. Rifle license with mod is granted. As the same time 2 shotgun licenses and a pistol license are revoked - that they are not suppressed and shooter wishes Garda to accept liabiltiy for their use.

BattleCorp · 27-04-2022 3:56pm

Musashie, have you received the refusal in writing? A refusal is supposed to be in writing.

If you've been verbally refused, ask for the written refusal and then you can take things from there. I think you have to appeal within 30 days though so the clock is ticking.

musashie · 27-04-2022 4:49pm

musashie · 27-04-2022 5:41pm

It was in writing

BattleCorp · 28-04-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984906#Comment_118984906

For the record, from now on, every time you apply for a firearm cert or for a renewal you have to mention that you've a refusal on your record.

I don't think you've told us what the reason/reasons were for the refusal?

Anyway, you've 30 days from the receipt of the notice to appeal if that's what you want to do.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/26/section/43/enacted/en/html

Grizzly 45 · 28-04-2022 9:01pm

No biggie telling them that you have been refused. It's actually a badge of honour, as the majority are from administrative refusals by aGS themselves.Not because of criminal misdeeds on your part.

Cass · 17-05-2022 11:01pm

Did you get anywhere with this?

Sparkey84 · 09-11-2022 11:10am

would love to know how this turned out or indeed if any other people have had a similar problem. thanks

richiedel123 · 12-11-2022 3:15pm

It's going on everywhere at the moment. Know a lad who applied for a moderator for his 308 and the supers reason for refusal was on safety grounds. They said that people living nearby are entitled to know that somebody is shooting nearby!!!!

Obviously they are watching too much telly