Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

BattleCorp1 · 22-03-2022 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118818337#Comment_118818337

It's before the courts so I can't really discuss much or Cass will take a hatchet to this discussion. 😁

I'm surprised he didn't apply for bail at the earliest opportunity. I'm also surprised that he wasn't granted bail. There's a guy accused of murder in February currently out on bail and sort of staying in a house two doors up from where my sister lives.

I thought that the comments I've highlighted in bold below are interesting.

But Ms Justice Deirdre Murphy ruled today that Mr Phelan posed a serious flight risk if admitted on bail.

She said this was due to matters, including the seriousness of the charge, the strength of the evidence, and the likely sentence.

Cass · 22-03-2022 8:35pm

Battlecorp - It's before the courts so I can't really discuss much or Cass will take a hatchet to this discussion. 😁

Correct and right sir. 😎.

Sub Judice applies here guys so thread lightly.

Mellor · 23-03-2022 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820560#Comment_118820560

Absolutely, don't want people to post or say anything prejudicial. More so the "facts" they have been printed.

I don't think this clear exactly what was going on. Who was hunting. Why he had two firearms on him. What where the staff doing with him. Not asking for speculation, just confused by the details

Mellor · 23-03-2022 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118820001#Comment_118820001

I think the no bail thing was mainly on the fact that he has an overseas passport, and few million in assets, also fleeing is easily available.

Plus unlike a case where the prosecution have to placing somebody at the scene, prove certain things happen, etc. A lot of that is not up for dispute here.

Grizzly 45 · 29-03-2022 7:28pm

Watching a documentary on Des O Malley here on RTE.

States that AGS insisted, and he states himself that he personally carried a handgun and was under armed Garda protection as was his family for a time post the Arms trial and the NI situation kicking off in 1972. Just wondering did this have an influence on his decisions about the Temp custody Order 1972? Apart from the blatant hypocrisy of "one law for thee and one for me",being forced to do something you don't like can certainly affect your decisions on a topic.

Also, I wonder what training he got in firearms usage/safety and tactics?Or was it just a "Here you are minister...Sign here and off you go" situation?

Grizzly 45 · 30-03-2022 12:55pm

I can see two things happening here with this law.

1] A possible massive "escape" of mink back into the wild and [2] further assaults now on field sports from the balaclava loon brigades,as one of their objectives is achived.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/fur-farming-to-end-in-ireland-as-ban-passes-final-stage/

tomtucker81 · 02-04-2022 2:46pm

Sense would dictate that the existing animals on the fur farms are used for their intended purpose with no further breeding or buying to replace these animals rather than releasing Mink into the wild. Let the farms run their course as such.

They key word there...Sense.

Mellor · 03-04-2022 1:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870405#Comment_118870405

I’d assume its up to the farm to cease operations by whatever date. And they’ll make the most of what they can. They’ve have no reason to release them other than maliciousness.

Grizzly 45 · 03-04-2022 12:45pm

Or the animal lovers do a false flag raid to claim it was an irresponsible peed off farm owner that did it.Either way watch them ramp it up against field sports in the future.

Grizzly 45 · 15-04-2022 8:24pm

Over reaction or justified?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-new-york-cop-threatens-to-sue-garda-after-gun-siezed-1.4853054

JP22 · 15-04-2022 10:30pm

Justified in the sense that AGS should always check out all reports of possible illegal firearms BUT totally over the top and totally unprofessional in how they carried out the task.

Using a sledge hammer to crack a peanut comes to mind.

Mellor · 16-04-2022 3:18am

Illegally in possession of a unlicensed firearm, even if deactivated. But I bet the lad telling stories down the pub didn’t mention that part.

You’d think it was more of a two Guards knock of the door scenario. So might be more to the story

Grizzly 45 · 16-04-2022 11:37am

ASFIK the owner or resident etc has to be present before a warranted search of a premises takes place.It doesn't sound like this guy was unknown in the community as an ex NYPD or where his routine would take him. So why the STASI tactics with full goon squad in tow?Utter overuse of force IMO.

As for unlicensed Deacts.Wonder how many of these keepsakes are still out there held by folks of his generation, that can easily be solved by a chat and a Supers letter to keep them?

Lesson. Never give out info or pics of your guns to anyone. Even people you know for years. Never know what or how that info might be used.

Munsterlad102 · 16-04-2022 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932405#Comment_118932405

Clear example of AGS wasting time and money for a non issue. Just a thought, but this should be mentioned in the upcoming firearms panel to show that AGS have no clue what they're doing and have their priorities skewed.

Feisar · 18-04-2022 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935114#Comment_118935114

The death of the "local Garda" is part of the problem here IMHO. With no text book to advise, coming hot on the heels of that lady shot in Dublin and that lad off his tits in Donegal, extreme reactions are to be expected.

BattleCorp · 19-04-2022 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118935114#Comment_118935114

I'm actually on the side of the Gardai here.

How could the Gardai know it was a deact and not a live firearm unless they actually went and investigated it? It was very much an issue until they checked it out and then discovered that it was deactivated. I'm also fine with armed Gardai checking it out. You can't really expect unarmed Gardai to investigate reports that someone has an illegal handgun.

Grizzly 45 · 19-04-2022 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945173#Comment_118945173

The guy is 88,an ex NYPD, known in the community for years.

Hardly requires a SWAT team door kicker event.Esp as he wasn't at home at the time and his routine was well known. A pull over on the roadside on his way back home and friendly chat pointing out this problem of a suspected unlicensed firearm known to be in his possession by a local Garda would have clarified, sorted and removed the deadly danger of a Deacted lump of metal from the community.

Different story if it was a suspected safe house of the "RA" and there was a possibility of an AS meeting going on or the like. Realistic perception of the threat facing you is a great thing.🙂

BattleCorp · 19-04-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945942#Comment_118945942

Known in the community but possibly not known to the Gardai. You say his routine was well known. How would the Gardai know his routine? There's no Garda station in his town of Swanlinbar for any of them to know his routine. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-new-york-cop-threatens-to-sue-garda-after-gun-siezed-1.4853054

I agree that it could have been handled differently but maybe the Gardai didn't know what they were dealing with and were playing it safe. You are viewing the incident with the benefit of hindsight. The Gardai wouldn't have known that it was deactivated.

I don't buy the whole "the Gardai saw it in a picture on Facebook" story to be honest. Someone more than likely reported him to the Gardai and who knows what they told the Gardai.

By the way, an 88 year old man can shoot you just as easily as a 20 year old so I don't really blame the Gardai for being extra careful. If one unarmed member of the Gardai went out to investigate it and got shot, we'd be giving out why didn't armed Gardai go to investigate someone with a suspected illegal handgun.

The Gardai called to his house with a search warrant, he wasn't there. They entered the house and conducted a search as per the search warrant. It's not like they busted down the door swat style at 5am and dragged him from the bed kicking and screaming.

We give out plenty here about the Gardai but what's the issue in this case? There were too many Gardai there? They had guns?

Munsterlad102 · 19-04-2022 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944696#Comment_118944696

I'm not exactly critical of AGS looking for illegal firearms, more power to them to do that, but my problem is where they search for illegal firearms. You have to prioritize who's actually going to use said firearms. Some 88 year old granddad isn't exactly a Hutch hitman, and AGS didn't initially know whether or not it was deactivated or not. Of course your man shouldn't have had the firearm, but come on now. What AGS should have been prioritizing was operations like operation Tara that actually take drugs and guns off the streets. Public reaction shouldn't have any impact on the actions of AGS.

Munsterlad102 · 19-04-2022 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945173#Comment_118945173

A phone call could have clarified that. I hope you're not expecting AGS to batter down the doors of all the collectors out there with a deactivated Mauser or dad's old deactivated shotgun. Also an 88 year old man isn't exactly a high risk person. Obviously I'm not condoning your man's actions, both possession of the gun or threatening to sue, but there are bigger issues than this.

If they are going to raid your man's house, I agree that armed Gardaí should go, no one wants a repeat of the Tony Golden tragedy.

Mellor · 19-04-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946381#Comment_118946381

I agree they should prioritise these operations. If they had to choose between this and a report of a active shooter, or a drug den full of guns. Then obvious this guy is bottom of the list.

But I highly doubt this unit in the middle of the country are ceasing criminal firearms multiple times a day, every day. You don’t know long they had this info before they had no priorities ahead of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946445#Comment_118946445

Collectors with deactivated mausers would have authorisation to possess. If this guy declared it properly, it would have been a non-issue.

I agree an 88 year old man is low risk generally. But it’s a fair old age. I’m sure we’ve all know someone at age suffering from dementia. Unlikely, but the Garda can’t assume it’s not the case. Who knows what the person who reported it actually said.

I agree with Battlecorp. The Guards from however far away don’t know the guy, his routine, that it was safe, or that he was willing to hand it over. They can’t assume any of that either.

Munsterlad102 · 19-04-2022 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946840#Comment_118946840

I agree they should prioritise these operations. If they had to choose between this and a report of a active shooter, or a drug den full of guns. Then obvious this guy is bottom of the list.

But I highly doubt this unit in the middle of the country are ceasing criminal firearms multiple times a day, every day. You don’t know long they had this info before they had no priorities ahead of it.

Yeah that's a fair point. It's really no my neck of the woods, so I'm not sure what crime is like up there but I doubt any unit is seizing multiple illegal firearms daily. Nevertheless, I think we would all agree that this would have been solved with a simple phone call to clarify the story.

BattleCorp · 19-04-2022 4:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946445#Comment_118946445

I'm not knocking your point of view but there are other points of view too.

There's no way the Gardai will phone up someone they suspect of having an illegal handgun and ask them if they have an illegal handgun. Sure if it was an illegal handgun, that would give them time to stash the illegal gun. The person could say ah, that was a toy and I threw it away last week. Case closed, no evidence of the person having an illegal gun. My point is that the Gardai had no way of knowing it was a deactivated handgun until they went and checked it out.

I'll agree with you that an 88 year old man isn't exactly a high risk person, but they are not a no risk person.

People are fixated on the fact that it was a deactivated gun. The Gardai had absolutely no way of knowing it was a deact until they went and looked at it and had it examined.

Grizzly 45 · 19-04-2022 5:31pm

Known in the community but possibly not known to the Gardai. You say his routine was well known. How would the Gardai know his routine? There's no Garda station in his town of Swanlinbar for any of them to know his routine. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ex-new-york-cop-threatens-to-sue-garda-after-gun-siezed-1.4853054

Seriously? They didn't know his routine? When it says in the paper he goes every day across the border to buy the IT? No one notices that routine? Yup the decease of the local Garda living in the community is a sad thing...He knew just about everyone and thing on his beat.

I don't buy the whole "the Gardai saw it in a picture on Facebook" story to be honest. Someone more than likely reported him to the Gardai and who knows what they told the Gardai.

That's what we have so far as evidence, anything else is speculation. If it is isn't it rather ominous that AGS is starting to trawl our FB accounts or using "evidence" from FB to conduct raids? What next?Dawn raids because of mean tweets or liking an unpopular opinion on FB? Already happening in the UK and EU..So why not here?

By the way, an 88-year-old man can shoot you just as easily as a 20-year-old so I don't really blame the Gardai for being extra careful. If one unarmed member of the Gardai went out to investigate it and got shot, we'd be giving out why didn't armed Gardai go to investigate someone with a suspected illegal handgun.

In an active shooter situation? Cmon man! That's a lot different to putting up a few paper targets that don't shoot back at you,as you and I well know.This guy was probably last on a duty range back in the late 1980s,so I doubt he'd be in top tier operator class,and there is no mention of him having any other sort of firearm...WHY is there an immediate assumption that in every case of a firearm, there is some psycho, fully kitted out and ready to dance that requires the heavy squad of door kickers? Even US police forces who have this on a day to day level, don't go overboard with this sort of reaction.

Also,ask if he had something illegal for all these years. Why would he suddenly decide to show it to the neighbour and his kids?

The Gardai called to his house with a search warrant, he wasn't there. They entered the house and conducted a search as per the search warrant. It's not like they busted down the door swat style at 5 am and dragged him from the bed kicking and screaming.

It seems there could be[and I'm speculating here] a problem with the way AGS conducted the search Was it fair and respectful? And was he allowed to observe or be present when it occurred? Seems not going by the article. It seems he headed out for the paper and came home to find the local SWAT team turfing his house upside down?

Tthere are pros and cons,and no doubt more to the story than let on.But it seems to be a sad state if we need that sort of reaction to an old man and a keepsake.

Collectors with deactivated mausers would have the authorisation to possess. If this guy declared it properly, it would have been a non-issue.

2 things there. How would anyone know or what the procedure for checking for a legally held Deact,[ more correctly a permit for keeping a defective firearm??]It's not on the PULSE system at all, and it seems to be rather nebulous as to how this works here as it is seemingly a written letter or permission from the local Superintendent?So do they ring up the Super and ask him has he given Joe Bloggs a permit for a Deact in recent times?

And also, how many old folks will know about this legislative change?

This guy moved over here in the late 1980s? and back then if your keepsake didn't have a firing pin and a bit of lead[literally] blocking the barrel, you were grand!!! Seriously it was like that back then.He made the effort to get it deacted,and maybe back then was told,before he moved "that's grand!" by the AGS back then...We can only speculate of course on that.

It only became an issue when the offensive weapons act came about, and even then it wasn't envisioned for people to become Deact collectors, it was just a way to keep tabs on who owned what in family keepsakes. When you get to his age, you would be more worried about the prostate than your pistol, being in working order.😁

I agree an 88 year old man is low risk generally. But it’s a fair old age. I’m sure we’ve all know someone at age suffering from dementia. Unlikely, but the Garda can’t assume it’s not the case. Who knows what the person who reported it actually said.

Folks with dementia or the onset don't generally drive cars anymore either, after all they have to do a medical once a year once they hit the 80s to be fit to drive to prevent such happening.

Mellor · 20-04-2022 1:10pm

Seriously? They didn't know his routine? When it says in the paper he goes every day across the border to buy the IT? No one notices that routine?

How would the guards stationed however many miles away notice him driving 6minutes over the border everyday? He’s going the opposite way and nowhere near them.

That's what we have so far as evidence, anything else is speculation. If it is isn't it rather ominous that AGS is starting to trawl our FB accounts or using "evidence" from FB to conduct raids?

Except there’s no evidence. That was literally speculation in the paper.

FYI Guards can’t trawl FB accounts. Pictures you post are private and only visible to those you allow to view them.

WHY is there an immediate assumption that in every case of a firearm, there is some psycho, fully kitted out and ready to dance that requires the heavy squad of door kickers?

Preparing for the worst isn’t the same as assuming the worst. I doubt anyone though they were dealing with a crazed vigilante.

But I don’t see what’s wrong with sending an armed unit. It’s literally their job. Though, 3-4 would have worked as well.

It seems there could be[and I'm speculating here] a problem with the way AGS conducted the search Was it fair and respectful? And was he allowed to observe or be present when it occurred? Seems not going by the article. It seems he headed out for the paper and came home to find the local SWAT team turfing his house upside down?

It does seem like it he was in that it would have been much less of an ordeal.

Knock, Knock. Here you go.

2 things there. How would anyone know or what the procedure for checking for a legally held Deact,[ more correctly a permit for keeping a defective firearm??]It's not on the PULSE system at all, and it seems to be rather nebulous as to how this works here as it is seemingly a written letter or permission from the local Superintendent? So do they ring up the Super and ask him has he given Joe Bloggs a permit for a Deact in recent times?

Only the guards can answer how they knew. But the fact is, he didn’t have permission. So however they checked appears to have been accurate.

And also, how many old folks will know about this legislative change?

This guy moved over here in the late 1980s? and back then if your keepsake didn't have a firing pin and a bit of lead[literally] blocking the barrel, you were grand!!! Seriously it was like that back then.He made the effort to get it deacted,and maybe back then was told,before he moved "that's grand!" by the AGS back then...We can only speculate of course on that.

No need to speculate on that. The guy acknowledges that he didn’t declare it. So we know for a fact that AGS couldn’t have ok’d it. That is essentially the entire issue.

He moved over in 96. Was it still just a firing pin job then? How difficult to reverse that.

Folks with dementia or the onset don't generally drive cars anymore either, after all they have to do a medical once a year once they hit the 80s to be fit to drive to prevent such happening.

True, but I was responding to a comment about 80 years old and risk in general, not this guy specifically. Wasn’t suggesting anything about his health.

Mellor · 02-05-2022 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118750431#Comment_118750431

"Either way what the Hell is a general doing cruising around the battlefield?"

Seems they learn little and nothing from the general taken out by a sniper. The highest ranking military officer in the Russian Army, basically the Chief of Staff of the Army, was on the frontline last week. And the Ukrainians got wind and launched a rocket in his direction. He caught minor shrapnel, not killed. But that's beside the point. WTF was he doing anywhere near the front line. Sums up how much they are floundering.

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/05/01/vladimir-putins-top-military-commander-evacuated-injured-from-ukraine/

Grizzly 45 · 12-05-2022 10:08pm

Seems not just these Russian generals get these moments of daftness either.

Churchill and Monty decided to go boating across the Rhine in 1945 seemed a good idea, and almost got shelled for their pains! Gen Dwight D Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander for Europe took to the skies in a converted two-seater Mustang to view a battlefield in a 30 min flight over Germany as well in 1945, albeit with a heavy fighter escort. As did Reinhard Heydrich, Himmler's right-hand man before he became Reich protector of Czechoslovakia. He volunteered to a Luftwaffe bomber crew as a gunner and got some minor flack injuries for his pains. All of these were top value targets that either side would have felt if they had been lost. Even Zelensjky has been off on a frontline battlefield tour. It must get into these old warhorses heads once in awhile that they must lead from the front. But in the Russians case,its more like a lack of NCOs and mid level management that is getting the top brass into Ukranian rifle and missile sights.