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F1 2022 thread - see post 1 for rules

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It would do ot in exactly the same way the safety car does it, but it wouldn't be limited to whatever speed the safety car happens to be able to do. E.g safety car can do a lap in 150 seconds but the virtual version could be set at 130 seconds. Cars bunch up behind the leader doing a lap time set at in 130seconds and they follow him. Simple enough. Cars then pass the incident in about 20seconds from first to last, leaving the marshals about 110 seconds clear track time per lap to fix the problem.

    @muckwarrior everyone wouldn't drive to the delta, just the leader. And the other cars would drive to the delta when they reach the pack behind the leader. Then they'd all drive to the delta in exactly the same way they do when following the safety car.

    This can't be hard to figure out. It's exactly the same as a safety car, but done with a delta instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,811 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It's an idea but it's not as simple as that.

    Firstly you will have lead car changing due to pitstops and so great confusion.

    Secondly the safety car slows to a crawl if needed at scene of accident so you would have to be sure all drivers would be capable of behaving that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I suppose its the same as the great confusion caused by lapped cars. But in realitynits not a cause of confusion at all. If the leader pints then the next car becomes the leader. The confusion might takenplace between the time the leader enters the pits, and the next car actually overtakes them. So we're probably talking a matter of a few hunderd meters of potential confusion - easily solved by briefing and making the drivers aware of potential leadership change

    But in reality the delta would apply to the leader whoever they are. And if they want to slow them down at the imcident site, it could be easily achieved. They have speed limits innother parts of the track all weekend like the pit lane.

    The safety car is a relic. Totally unnecessary. But i suppose it's old so there will always be resistance to any chanage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,118 ✭✭✭muckwarrior


    I guess it could work. I think having a standard VSC first, for a lap or so, where everyone must drive to a delta would mitigate any confusion around who's in the lead. Then once that's clear, the delta is applied to only the lead car, but no overtaking is allowed.

    Or, you could send the safety car out for a lap or two to bunch up the field and then let them drive to a delta.

    Or, the drivers could just stop whining and deal with the sub-optimal temperatures on restart. As Kimi would have said, it's the same for everyone.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you ever need evidence of the skill of F1 drivers...


    You'll never get perfect with safety cars etc. unless we're going to take a snapshot the cars' position at the moment of it being called then somehow try to get everyone to restart from there. Even then it wouldn't be perfect, people who stopped in slow places would gain on those who stopped halfway down a straight.

    Now there's no refuelling it would be easy to close the pit lane for a safety car or VSC. If you just closed it for the VSC and gaps were more or less maintained then no-one would lose out by more than a few seconds. Maybe protocol could be always VSC with pitlane closed first (unless it's a clear red flag) then safety car. Or hell, pit under VSC/SC means a 10-15 second depending on track hold before cars can be worked on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,263 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I think the SC comes with a nice marketing budget for the associated brands, Aston and Merc would be paying a few bob I am sure to have their cars out there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    I like that idea that the leader is the defacto safety car and all other cars line up behind. The leader then just keeps their Delta to a set time/speed around the track.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭quokula


    Rather than coming up with new rules Pirelli could provide tyres that don’t have such a narrow working window. F1 used to cope just fine with much slower safety cars


    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,020 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,007 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    How about this great safety car lol,

    I think the tracks back then supplied there own safety cars. The FIA or F1 did not.


    When did it all change and what was the factor that changed it I wonder?

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I'm Mercedes and Aston Martin, and I approve this message.

    Do you think they allowed the FIA to draft the letter themselves or do you think they just handed them the finished statement?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Why did it change? £,$ and €

    It's an outdated convention, but it's old so loads of people can't contemplate alternatives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    The drivers complaining about the safety car is just like Horner and Wolf complaining to Masi last year. They shouldn't be broadcasting the drivers messages complaining as it could be seen to be either directly or indirectly trying to influence the workings of the safety car.

    The clue is in the name, is a SAFETY car. It's not designed to drive around a breakneck speed to satisfy the drivers. It's there to keep the marshals out on track safe.

    Hopefully the letter the FIA released will put this issue to bed once and for all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Is it tyre temps or engine temps that they are worried about?

    They have the ability to keep the car "ticking over" while queuing in the pits to stop the car over heating while stationary. Could something similar can be introduced on track?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah, those situations aren't ideal but those are a big different as the tyres are usually and morecambe to build speed and the cars aren't screaming hot needing the airflow to cool them.

    The safety car does great controlling the speed through the danger zones, protecting marshals. But the rest of the lap is just ambling around at sports car speeds when the f1 cars could be driving much faster while still bunching the cars, allowing marshals plenty of time to address the issues and keeping everything working properly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Not every safety car situation is the same. Different tracks throw up Different issues. Narrow cicuits with debris on track need more time out of the SC train to clear away etc



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,389 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    If the cars went around the rest of the track much faster, it would mean they would come back around to the incident sooner, thereby giving the marshals less time on the track every lap to clear the incident. That could potentially mean that they'd need to stay out there for longer, resulting in extra laps under caution compared to what there would have been behind a safety car, which ultimately would mean less racing, rather than more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yes. Instead of the marshals having 100 seconds a lap from the time the last car passes until the lead car passes next lap, they might instead have 85 seconds. But the cars do the lap 15 seconds faster, which the safety car could never hope to do.if you're opposed to speeding them up, are you in favour of slowing them down? If not, and you think they should keep the speed the same as it is now, what makes the current sports car safety car the Babybear's Porridge of lap times?

    If it worked the other way and we always had virtual safety cars, theres absolutely no way you would argue for a safety car that does lap times, not tailored to the track, but only as fast as that particular sports car happens to be able to lap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I don't believe all 20 drivers on the grid right now could be trusted alone to drive in such a way that marshals could be guaranteed safe working conditions to carry out their necessary work on track therefore having an external force keep them in check is absolutely essential. I can think of two incidents in Albert Park and Monza where marshals have lost their lives and a more recent incident in Brands Hatch last year. Marshals are volunteers remember. They're not getting paid to risk their lives. They are trusting the FIA, the local track owners and the drivers to keep their working conditions as safe as possible.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,429 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    and aint that utter BS.

    All the money in F1 and they can't pay the Marshals? utter rubbish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Not really. I was an Emergency First Responder for the Civil Defence for a time, used to man an ambulance at Tynagh karting track on occasion. Great enjoyment watching the racing from a trackside vantage point . If I ever looked for a job with the ambulance service that serves Mondello or the professional paramedics, that experience stands me in good stead.

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,007 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,909 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    First sprint race of the season is on next weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I enjoy the sprints. Good addition to the calendar.

    I agree with Will Buxton that they should do the sprints in reverse championship order. Faster cars at the back for maximise action over a single stint. That would be great to watch a few times a season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,007 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I hate the sprint races. They are a stupid gimmick.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    The whole sport is a stupid gimmick. That's totally beside the point. As a fan it's just a question of how entertaining it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,007 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    The sprint races are on at the wrong time for one. It should be free practice 1 and 2 then the sprint race then qualifying after that for Sundays race. The positions for the Sprint race would be decided from the race had the weekend or two before that race.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    OK. That's another way to do it. Seems they are keen to keep sprints so if they keep experimenting, you might get your wish.

    Do you think that way would be more entertaining?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,007 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Yes I do and I think it would make more sense too.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,152 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Fair one. I think the reverse championship grid order would be exciting to watch, with finish positions setting the grid order for the race. We'll see what happens.



This discussion has been closed.
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