Sentencing, Murder and Hate Crimes

She wasn't referring specifically to murder, she was referring to any crime motivated by hate. The implication being that if someone is punished more harshly the first time, then they may not go on to commit worse crimes motivated by the same hate.

Like you say, you can't get a worse punishment for murder regardless of motivation. We do have mandatory life sentences for murder.

I'm not in favour of a "life without parole" sentencing option, though I would like to see considerably more transparency around how and why murderers are released in the first place.

If we don't believe that someone is capable of change, then why lock them up at all? Why not a bullet in the head and be done with it? Because the justice system is based on the reality that people can change and it is incumbent on society to show moral superiority and give people that chance.

No, but if you are both men you could randomly be beaten up, or worse, on a night out in Dublin.

Yes, you are morally superior to a murderer. Which is why you don't execute them for murder.

Anyway, I can see you're mostly here for the rant. Nobody gets five years for murder in Ireland, and the fact of the matter is that murderers have one of the lowest recidivism rates there are. It is very, very rare for someone to be convicted of murder after being released. Of the small number who fall foul of the law again, it's usually public order offences or road traffic offences rather than violent crime.

There is no basis for "life means life" sentences for murder, nothing extra to be gained. It won't make people less likely to commit murder and won't stop crime.

There is one thing extra to be gained, if somebody is locked up for life, or executed (although I know that's a subject for another thread!) then there's no way they can commit a crime directly against any person outside that jail ever again. In that regard, life meaning life, or indeed execution, has a recidivism rate against the general public of 0%.

I think we'd probably agree on far more than we'd disagree judging by your post but thought that was one thing worth mentioning.

Scenario: An assault on a gay man by a straight man.

Should this crime carry a more severe punishment if the straight man has no idea of the sexual orientation of the victim ?

Lets just say they have never met before and there was an exchange of insults over a football match or something.

No

The person wasnt targeted because of their sexual orientation.

Both. The crime itself and the impact on the victim. If you still 200 Euro off Elon Musk it wont have the same effect as stealing 200 euro off a homeless person. The crime itself doesnt happen in a vacuum where there are no consequences.

Why do you think we now have victim impact statements read out in court.

I think your first point is just heading towards reductio ad absurdum there, it's not really needed with me, but I know that some of the posters on here can drive anyone in that direction! 😀

There's rarely a 'Gothca' in anything to do with such a crime, thankfully murder itself being a very rare and violent crime.

The gain to Irish society is justice itself being done. I accept that justice is a concept and as such harder to point at and say 'Hey look, there's some justice' but allowing someone to return to free society, without restriction after perpetrating what most of us would agree is the very top, top end of the crime scale seems... unjust?

Huh? In the second scenario it was the burglar, not the person who disturbed them, that was the assailant. How can being the burglar entitle you to kill someone and claim self defence? Maybe that would work in America but they're all mad, Ted.

I'd disagree with you on that, I believe that the crime itself is the most important factor to be considered by the judge/jury/whoever, rather than the impact. The impact is secondary, and by it's very nature, emotional. I've been very lucky, have not had many crimes committed against me, but the last one I can remember, I was absolutely furious, I would have done anything to feel like I was getting justice. But that doesn't make for good laws/justice. Emotion shouldn't come into law making/sentencing.

I saw a program on a murder in london. Bunch of scrotes went out to cause mayhem one night. They killed a guy who worked in a local bar before assaulting a few others. https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/happy-slap-killer-freed-after-4-years-6804596.html

during the program the police said they were looking at it as hate crime until they gang went on to assault the homeless guy who was straight apparently.

It struck me that if they didnt assault the second guy they would be in more trouble for the first crime coz it could be judged to be a hate crime. I mean thats totally illogical. Makes no f*cking sense.

so I guess after the crime in sligo if fair game to go after the men of ireland again like happened when that poor woman was killed in offaly. This time the media will go after ...straight white men ....or as they know them - the real enemy!