Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Former German soldiers defending their war: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJkNZ30WV0. They sicken me.

What about PBP's point that they think the sanctions will backfire and increase support for Putin among the Russian people, helping to consolidate his power? Is that a valid perspective?

Russian foreign policy is a mirror image of Western foreign policy but without the window dressing. 

The West/US - We would like more control over all that nice oil and Gas in Iraq, Syria, Libya. How do we make a grab for it all without admitting that's what its all about?

1. Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, he must be stopped.

2. The peoples of Libya and Syria are subject to brutal tyrannical dictators and deserve 'freedom' (Say nothing about the Saudis or the other Gulf monarchies lads, even though they are arguably worse than Assad or Ghadaffi)

Russia - Eastern Ukraine has lots of natural resources and Crimea is home of our Black sea fleet. Conveniently, both have large ethnic Russian populations.....how do we make a grab for it all without admitting that is what its all about?

1. The Ukranians are Nazis and they are committing genocide against ethnic Russians in the Donbass

2. Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat to our country

3. **** Ukrainians have cut off the water supply to Crimea

Both sides couch their true intentions with bullshit about 'humanitarian' interventions or 'the war on terror'. Sure didn't Putin even borrow that ideology for his 2nd war in Chechnya? I notice nobody in The West gave much of a **** about what he did there btw as it did kinda tie in with our own foreign policy at the time.

Likewise China still occupies Tibet, throws Uighurs into concentration camps and claims Taiwan and most of the South China Sea and has embarked on establishing a quasi empire in East Asia and Africa via massive infrastructure projects in ports, roads and rail networks and then annexes ports in lease for debt deals when countries cannot repay their loans.

And yet and yet, we are still all falling over ourselves for a share of their 'markets' and using Chinese peasants as a source of cheap labour to make all the rubbish consumer crap that we cannot get enough of here in The West.

You can criticise the likes of PBP and Daley all you like but surely the purpose of leftwing politicians (not to mention investigative journalists) is to 'comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.' Ineffective and all as they are, at least they are pointing out some of the blatant hypocrisy going on right now.

DarthPutinKGB on Twitter:

"We dictators don't do propaganda to make you believe something. We do it to make you believe nothing. So you will do nothing."

You dont appear to be getting my drift at all at all, which is a real shame. You have misinterpreted me altogether.....Of course I do not blame The West for Ghadaffi or Assad. That would be ludicrous!

All the same, Assad was educated in London and is married to an English woman and he was initially hailed as a moderate by Western powers...until he backed out of that pipeline from Qatar in favour of the Iranian pipeline from the south Pars Gas field. The largest national Gas reservoir on the planet....It was only then it was decided he had to go..

Likewise with Gaddafi. He had been ostracized for years over his support for terrorists, both at home and abroad (even trained and armed the IRA if memory serves me. Then he was on the road to rehabilitation through his friendship with Berlusconi (2 dirty old men). Blair and others went to Libya to kiss his ring in exchange for Gad and Oil deals...then he decided he wanted to stop selling his oil and Gas in dollars. Had a notion to establish an all African currency...his rehabilitation quickly halted...he had to go as well...

Anyways, that's enough no point anymore...

What does Putin having more consolidated power in Russia look like? He rules Russia unopposed. Just typical PBP nonsense really that wasn't particularly well thought out. Are sanctions a perfect answer? No, is there a perfect answer? No, do they then put forward another plausible course of action? I would wage the answer again is no.

Do you think it is? Lets see you put in a little bit more effort here, nail a few colours to the mast, rather than playing the contrarian mad lad all time.

edit again: may as well give my own opinion...It is not something that needs to be considered. Putin seems to be secure. The regime controls information, and it has the tools to stamp out and discourage dissent from those unhappy with the war. The main 2 aims of sanctions, trade embargos and the like must be to try and cripple Russia's economy to make it hard for it to wage war or rearm after this war and to disconnect our own economies and societies from it so Russia has less leverage over us in future. I'm not sure the sanctions will change many opinions there one way or the other. Would speculate that those less supportive of Putin/war may be quite inclined to blame the regimes' policies for hardships (?), those who already support the war and Putin's policies towards Ukraine will blame the "foreign enemies" etc.

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...edit: on Boyd Barrett + video of his rant posted above, I remember at start of Russia's invasion, there was a video of him lecturing some quite incredulous Ukrainian protestors outside the Dail I believe, about the evils wrought by NATO and US/Western imperialism etc.

So very tone deaf and seeing him do it yet again in above posted video shows there is no hope for reflection & growth. Most of the rag-tag far left here are absolutely hopeless peter pans, whose politics is more appropriate to a student union society than a real parliament.

Usually it is just annoying for the rest of us who won't give such wastes even the last preference, but right now, during this war it goes well beyond that. I feel a bit ill listening.

The opinion of the people only matters in a democracy with free and fair elections. Russia has neither.

War is seriously expensive. Outside of the Oligarchs, the aim of the sanctions hasn't been to change opinion, it's to cripple the Russian government's income so that they can't afford to continue the war. Estimates as it stands are that the Russian economy will shrink this year between 10-15% while also having inflation of 20-25%. That'll hurt.

New Podcast from Sam Harris - he talks with Political Scientist Ian Bremmer -

Its decent stuff so thought i would include it

In this episode of the podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Ian Bremmer about the ongoing war in Ukraine. They discuss the current state of the war, the power of sanctions, Biden's "gaffe" about regime change, fear of nuclear war, the logic of mutually assured destruction, the role of China, the most likely outcomes of the war, and other topics.

EDIT - its the first 35 minutes actually - my login was active

As mentioned before Harris doesnt take advertising money so has a subscription service - however he also grants Free Subs to those who request one

Re the "contrarian mad lad" comment let me explain, it was not that specific questioning post (on face of it mildly asking if PBP have a point here, on a specific issue). It is more an accumulation of lurking + reading probably too many of your posts on this, and other subjects in the past, and minor circumstantial stuff like the Ukraine based "jokes" in your signature (edit: I see they are gone). Sorry, but I just find such contrarianism, in particular around this war + rights and wrongs of it (e.g. should we in the EU sanction Russia?) very wearying + depressing at this stage, in light of what is happening.

edit: The funny thing is I found out the other day that RT (Russia Today as it was at one point) use "Question more" as the channel's tagline/catchphrase. I thought that is quite clever, Russia/Putin are very, very good at propaganda, and would be excellent advertisers. It really gets right to the nub of who they are aiming at (disillusioned Westerners) and at part of what they try to do with their disinfo i.e. worm the messages useful to Russia into such accepting minds, questioning the usual views put forward by media/govt./majority in their democracy, who will also spread them about.

@corkie the infatuation i feel due to this nonsense - this spectacle of 'Moral Confusion' - i mean its blood boiling.

In a way it makes me more angry than the sight of Russian TV presenters talking nonsense - While im sure many of the Russian Anchors are 'true believers', i can square that a bit. Brainwashing, and the fact that we know some of them disagree with the war. Dont get me wrong i am NOT condoning their behavior - but i can square it a bit

However to have Irish Politicians behaving as Boyd Barrett did - and the PbP in general - less than a week after Bucha -

Its maddening - its horrid stuff

The sanctions will backfire - and probably have at this stage? There is no denying that. But there is also the idea of a tipping point. Yes many may rally to the cause and support Putin. But information is going to leaking through - real heroic stuff btw

Segway: I have been MOST IMPRESSED by some of the lengths activists are going to get the real truth out in Russia. Editing Price tags so your Toothpaste tube reads - '500 Rubles (15k Russian Soldiers have died in the Ukraine)' - i even saw a tweet where a pharmacy chain is editing their Prescription Texts to give info

'Hi! Your prescription has been prepared by the Pharmacist and is ready to collect! Russian Soldiers are killing Raping and Looting in Ukraine'

But yes it will backfire and hurt average Russians. They are collateral damage. But what is the alternative? I dont see one, short of actual military intervention which cannot happen. And the tipping point will be real. The Russian army is getting a real hammering - casualties are mounting. Bodies will be going back, sons will return dead, and disabled. And their families will suffer economic hardship - that tipping point CAN BE REACHED -

I also have to say - The fact that an Ivan and an Alina have lost some savings, and are having to pay more for their Breakfast cereal is terrible - but it pales in comparison to what Russia is perpetrating. My sympathy lies with the Ukrainians.

Putin effectively threatened that if ANYONE intervenes it will mean war - nuclear war. OK FINE - Everything aside from Military intervention is on the table

• Economic sanction
• Companies leave and jobs lost
• Arm the Ukrainians to the teeth
• Ban Russian Oil and gas
• Cripple the Ruble
• Enable Ukraine to exact a heavy price in both men and machinery

C'est la vie Vlady, no war with the west as you wanted - The die is cast, how do you like them apples