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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    I'd say Putin will be happy if he is given some crappy consolation prize that he can grab and display in lavish military parades so Russia can celebrate their "massive" win for the next 20 years whilst pretending not to cry and lick their wounds.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    A Russian outlet accidentally released a report that they had lost approx 10k soldiers, that was last week. That's in line with current conservative estimates (Ukrainian propaganda puts a higher figure on it, whilst Russian propaganda puts a much lower figure on it)

    For civilian casualties, the most solid figures we have are from the OHCHR, currently it's round 1,200 deaths, 2,000 injured. However those are just verified figures. The real figure will be quite a bit higher as many bodies are unaccounted for, buried in rubble, etc.

    There's plenty of footage of the war online. In fact, due to drones, it's probably the most combat footage I've seen from any recent war. The photos and video have been independently used to determine, for example, how much equipment/vehicles both sides have lost (just with visual confirmation). The Russians have, for example, lost at least 360 main battle tanks, either destroyed, abandoned or captured. I say "at least", because that's just the documented losses with visual evidence.

    On a side note, individuals who want to insert narratives about a situation are quick to claim we can't trust any info or that none exists. This helps them insert whatever story they want.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod note:

    Dont goad other posters. Please stick to the topic which is Ukraine, and dont make things personal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It is risky but if they destroyed it and were shot down after and killed wouldn't it still be viewed as a success and the price worth paying.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    @liamtech

    I don't follow this as closely or have as much knowledge as others so not much point in giving my opinion on most of what you posted. I do get tempted to respond rather than just read along when like of tooka pop up again posting away but I admit it is childish and futile.

    On Ukraine attacking targets over the border in Russia, I think if they can do it they are right to. Why should those staging areas located in Russia which they retreat to in safety to re-group and re-equip, air bases, their misslile launch sites and "dual use" like a fuel storage depot be off limits?

    Russia chose to go to war and invade unprovoked, for nothing. If Russia wants peace, they can easily cease fire and/or withdraw forces from Ukraine and get serious about coming to an agreement with Ukraine's govt..

    Such attacks into Russia are (probably) a stretch and a risk for them though (whatever aircraft, helicopters etc. they use must be at a very high risk of being shot down) and assume their main priority is to destroy the Russian military that is already inside Ukraine and push them back away from their cities.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭tooka


    Good to see mods calling out posters who are getting a little too personal

    I have always being very fair and professional in my posting

    regards Poland invading Germany please see below

    Using the enormous archive of trophy documents Putin has proved two crucial points: first, on the eve of the World War II Poland basically formed a military alliance with Hitler’s Germany and secondly, anti-antisemitism became a state ideology of Poland before the war. This means that Poland, together with Nazi Germany, is the culprit of starting World War II.

    The European Parliament has accepted and adopted this



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 53,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Seems Japan are claiming sovereignty of the islands they contest with Russia. They have been reporting that troops have been pulled off the islands to bolster the offense in Ukraine. I can see Japan moving troops in there and giving Russia another headache.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I agree with you broadly!

    A few Caveats:

    • I am not a military expert - i know what i know from books, and studying around the peripheries during my IR degree
    • As of yet the Ukraine has not taken responsibility for the attack (happy to be corrected on this but my understanding is that the footage has been verified, including the choppers now - but as of yet 'who's choppers' they are is not confirmed)
    • For the purposes of discussion im going to 'ASSUME' they were Ukrainian - and ignore the false flag possibilities etc

    I mean like you said - absolutely legitimate to attack ones enemy. Regardless of location. Ukraine and Russia are at war - period. So any opportunity Ukraine has to damage/destroy/disable Russian assets - 100% justified and legitimate -

    • In terms of sending Ukrainian aircraft to a location north of Kharkiv, it may have been a question of Russian Air defenses being aimed at the Ukraine. They probably expect any Ukraine Aircraft to be concentrated on attacking Russian units on Ukraine soil - It may also be that the Russia believed Ukraine lacked the capability to attack Russian targets beyond their own border -
    • Russia must now balance against future attacks on depots/targets within their own border - it is prudent for them to do so, Ukraine has proved its capability of attacking within Russia - In attempting to defend and deter, Russia must redirect resources that could otherwise be deployed against the Ukraine. This is a benefit to the Ukraine of course.
    • The location attacked is just north of Kharkiv so - certainly a logistics hub for Russian Units fighting in the east of Ukraine. 100% legitimate to retard support for enemy units adjacent to Kharkiv and the Donbas
    image.png

    Well in terms of Chinese retail - possibly - they could be of assistance. Russia seems to prefer to nationalize foreign premises/assets within their territory. Consider that some of the premises involved may belong to companies that deal extensively with China RE manufacturing and supply? China will be prudent. They will help Russia for sure - but i cannot see them doing anything to overtly effect their primary customers in the west - They will have observed the economic sanctions (and what amounts to a boycott) - and will certainly take note of this, and the public outcry against Russia

    As for the EU - i fully expect Ukraine to join eventually now - too much has happened - all that remains to be seen is how much of Ukraine remains independent

    As for NATO and the Donbas - not entirely sure i agree RE Donbas - when they regions in question 'declared independence' - the territory they 'claimed' was only partially under their control - We have also seen plenty of indications that not all Russian speaking Ukrainians are on board with annexation. I mean look i think it inevitable that Russia gets some land out of this - just unsure about the extent that could be viewed as realistically attainable - we dont know yet. If its legitimate referenda in the regions - who knows what way it breaks down. If Russia stages referenda - im sure 90-95% in favor - i saw someone in CA mentioned a possible ballot paper

    -Do you wish Luhansk (LPR) to join the Russian Federation

    • YES
    • NO (I hereby Volunteer for life time hard labor in Siberian Work camp)

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    That would be suicidal for the Japanese. Defending an attack instigated by Russia, like Ukraine are doing, is an entirely different kettle of fish from attacking Russia (which is what Japan would need to do to take control of those islands).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Japan has powerful allies ,and I highly doubt Putin is prepared to face more failures and embarrassment, because if Japan takes their Islands , Others will follow suit and remove Russians from their territories ,who's going to support Russia in multiple conflicts being they couldn't take ukraine ,now spread that across multiple fronts he can't hold or resupply without facing major obstacles



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    Putin can probably survive this Ukraine fiasco so long as he can claim some kind of victory for the domestic audience. Japan taking those islands would be the end of him. There would be no way to spin that. He'd be defenestrated by his own hard-liners.

    He'll do anything to prevent that from happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭circadian


    Yeah a huge portion of their military is designed on building supply lines for the front line, they are very effective at building pipelines, routes and railways. Except, when they come up against a modern and fluid opponent who can focus attacks in a variety of ways which would include hitting supply lines where possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭myfreespirit


    Russian casualties in Ukraine increasing:

    Assuming that this assessment is based on reliable NATO intelligence, it is a terrible indictment of the Russian military High Command, and a clear indication of incompetent leadership. It is a tragedy for the rank and file Russian soldiers who were lied to about their mission and are bearing the brunt of Ukrainian resistance.

    The battle is not going well for the Russians:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0401/1289690-ukraine-russia/

    It really does appear that the war planners believed their own propaganda, that Ukraine would fold in a few days. Instead, ordinary Russian soldiers are ill equipped, poorly led cannon fodder. Now Putin is going to add unwilling conscripts to the fighting:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0401/1289734-ukraine-live-tracker/

    "Russia launches conscription drive amid Ukraine conflict


    Russia has launched its spring draft of young men eligible for national service, vowing conscripts will not be sent to fight in Ukraine, where over 1,000 troops have been killed."

    All of this raises the spectre that Putin is getting more desperate and may employ yet more of the barbarity seen in the war in Syria.

    Ukrainian forces may not be able to defeat the Russian army, so the war will grind on, killing countless civilians and destroying Ukrainian cities and towns.

    Is it time for civilised nations to up the economic pressure on Russia, maybe pushing the rouble to become worthless and trigger economic collapse within Russia?

    Fine words and sentiments are of no use to Ukraine, war assistance is what is needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Yes I’m sure vlad would have no qualms about lobbing a nuke at Japan.

    On that note Mark Felton had an interesting/terrifying video on Russias latest nuke which the Americans label the Satan 2. Has a range of 18,000 miles which means it can be sent in any misleading direction (over both poles) before reaching its final target. Russia seemingly has the edge on the west with that terrifying technology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But Japan security is backed by the US he's not lobbing nuckes at anyone , especially not when the US has sizable number of troops and equipment based in Japan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    So if Japan makes a move on these islands is that the trigger for world war 3?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭liamtech


    As i understand it - the Kuril Islands are largely inhabited by Russians now - the dynamic of Japan attempting to seize them (regardless of historical claims) - would place the Japanese in the role of aggressor - cannot see it happening -It would be a diplomatic fiasco for Japan - and a favor for the Russians - even if they didnt escalate at first, they could point to a 'western satellite of the US seizing Russian territory' -

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 53,267 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Japanese army for now can only be used for defense although there's a growing nationalism movement looking to remove that.

    I don't see the Japanese making a move like that but on the other hand, no better chance to make a claim than now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    This is a story from the Guardian how a 30 strong ukranian team stopped the Russian convoy and if this is true it's the best thing I've heard in a long time. And they weren't hardened soldiers but a bunch of geeks!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,752 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The same edge that it enjoys with hypersonic missiles and MBTs?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Japan, as described by writers such as Lawrence Freedman, is a nation that can develop nuclear quickly based on its existing technology level but for historiical reason never did. Last year though, there were numerous comments in the Chinese Press ( apparently approved by the CCP) that warned Japan against interfering in the defence of Taiwan least they suffer nuclear attack. I'd persume Japan has a covert weapons programme in place now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    I'm surprised Moscow hadn't been hit by bombings. If I was Ukrainian I'd be thinking of putting s bomb on an underground train or in an area where lots of Russians hang out. Basically bring the terror to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,369 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I think a few of us discussed this earlier in the thread - lets hope the weaker member of the new axis follows the historical precedent and collapses. It would be a major catastrophe if, in trying to secure Ukraine, Pro-Russian Belarus collapses

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    Japan actually don't need a nuclear weapons programme as they already retain the option to host US nuclear warheads, as Germany, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands do already via "nuclear sharing". Of course China would be absolutely livid should this actually come to fruition, although former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is actively pushing for it.

    Depending on what further steps Putin takes in Ukraine, and whether at some stage chemical weapons or tactical nukes are used, will I think determine whether Japan will rush through an act to actively come under the US umbrella by hosting US warheads. The world will then hold its breath once again... for the Chinese reaction.

    We live in very precarious times, and with world tensions the way they are then something relatively minor is quite capable of triggering another World War.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    It is quite possible in that horrible narrow field, Russia is as competent as the west. In the nuclear testing days they always tended towards bigger and more dramatic explosions than the west with scant regard for safety or well being of the operatives carrying out the tests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,904 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    That would probably make russians support the war.

    Better off hitting military targets and infrastructure.

    The railroads are key to Russia resupplying, they should be looking to destroy signals and staging/unloading areas



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    JC. Cos that would be insane. You kinda lose the moral high ground, and support of the rest of the globe if you start planting bombs on trains. And I imagine the repercussions wrought by Russia as a result would be eye watering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Why would you even think that killing ordinary civilian men women and children is that right thing to do ? Its not right in Ukraine and it wouldn’t be right in Russia .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Pure speculation, but it's possible that that's also one of the factors that influenced the withdrawal from Kyiv. As you said, it'd be disastrous for Putin's popularity if they lost Belarus as an ally right now. Withdrawing the assault on Kyiv and Chernihiv means they could withdraw the Russian troops from Belarusian soil which alleviates the local pressure on Lukashenko given how unpopular the war is in Belarus.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    This is incorrect. The options to fire the nuclear weapons belong the the US, not the host country. Given it is the Chinese who had threaten Japan last year with atomic warfare, Chinese anger that Japan might actually do something about such nuclear sabre rattling is rather ironic.



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