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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I didn’t see the montage myself but was it a good one? Did you think it was great?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,636 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay


    I did not see it at all. Was this reply for the poster for did watch it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    One hour until stand down. I’m going to bed a happy man. The biggest overreach of a government in modern times will finally come to an end. Now to the way it should have been all along, over to the people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,154 ✭✭✭prunudo


    I don't believe they represent the majority, how many people did they interview that couldn't care, told them to piss off or just said it was time to move on.

    I find it very hard to believe any of the vox pops on media are not being manipulated to push a certain angle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    Should this thread be renamed, or closed ?

    I'd still like to discuss the bad handling of it all, and what mistakes they could avoid for the next one ...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭MOR316


    People can say whatever they want and have their opinions on anything they want...

    However, it's a stone cold hard fact that the media manipulate people into believing whatever narrative it is they want you to believe and I am not just talking about Covid. It's in everything!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    A brief synopsis would have sufficed. I haven't the time or the inclination to watch a 50 minute long YouTube video.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Still shocking in a way how the medical unions wanted us to mask up to ameliorate the hospital crisis

    They went against the evidence

    Some of the media are clowns but dangerous clowns and their words are still having an effect on people , they should reflect but they won't. Just move onto the next story cos that's what they do

    A little bit of faith has been restored in government and some of the main players did a good job in recent days and have gone up in my estimation

    We dodged a bullet on this one



  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    Just on a personal level, myself and my social circle, in our 60s, all happy to wear masks, still happy to retain social distancing. We all know people who have died and some of us got some very scary experiences of feeling very ill.

    So, perhaps some here should respect that and tone down the rhetoric and the LOLS. The way some are acting, you'd think you've just won an all Ireland final



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I think the focus now will rightly shift to the massive problems being caused by Putin's war in Ukraine - specifically the spiralling costs of energy and now talk of possible rationing as he tries to blackmail Europe, but also the costs and impact of the refugee crisis on our already critical domestic issues in particularly housing and health care.

    It's clear that the Government's attention is more on this (even if they're dealing with the latter all wrong, but that's a different thread) rather than appeasing the anxieties and self interests of the media, unions and noisy minority on social media - especially when there's no medical rationale for restrictions at this point.

    BUT... my only concern is that in the midst of all these far more pressing issues, the very real need to properly review the last 2 years and the decisions that were made will be either deferred altogether, or the outcomes/fallout quietly buried among the headlines. It's bad enough that Micheal Martin has already come out saying that he wouldn't expect the likes of Tony Holohan to be asked to provide evidence for these investigations.

    I expect that, as always, we will go through the motions at massive expense to the taxpayers over several years but the outcome will be a lengthy report that has no consequences for anyone and leads to no changes, and if and when we ever face a virus that really does have the potential to wipe out tens of thousands of people or worse in this country, we'll be as completely unprepared for it as we were this time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    They haven’t gone up in my estimation. They’re effectively doing exactly the same as they have throughout this thing, doing what Holohan tells them. If he had come out and said masks were needed you can bet your house that we would have masks back. We should not fall into the trap of thinking they are all of a sudden doing a good job. They are still the same spineless cretins they were all along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    BUT... my only concern is that in the midst of all these far more pressing issues, the very real need to properly review the last 2 years and the decisions that were made will be either deferred altogether, or the outcomes/fallout quietly buried among the headlines. 

    One always wonders what proper means here. Oftentimes it's a predetermined view of what happened. As always the ongoing medical scenarios trumped everything else. A review will not find anyone up against the wall, in reality of metaphorically. It will be a post-mortem, where they will; conduct an overview of the decisions. On that front you will find them at odds with what you seem to want. It will identify issues with NPHET, HSE and some of the decision making but the overall aim will be to learn from it. On balance they got quite a bit right even if those decisions infuriated sections of the populace and the CMO and MM have already owned up to some poor calls.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Pat K whinging at Darragh O'Brien that people aren't wearing masks at the moment, and quoting no doubt selectively from the texts to support his complaints. He's never going to let it go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Once upon a time when I was young I viewed him as an intellectual

    Now I see him as an embarrassment and a shock jock



  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    Yes that’s what I’d expect from any review as like you most believed the ongoing medical issues trumped everything. This may have been the case for a short time in 2020.

    Ideally we see a review - not of each good/poor decision made but an examination of policy-making de facto based on recommendations from an advice group, with no due process. A group that became more bloated over time with conservative health administrators with one mandate and no oversight.

    It was pretty infuriating to watch that bunch disregard virus wave patterns internationally - even with varying timelines the peaks and troughs were evident to anyone processing information from the rest of the world.

    A small island of 5 million beating their own drum. Comparable to Birmingham setting up an advice group and disregarding information from the rest of the UK. NPHETs early and subsequent flirtation with ISAG resulted in huge waste and damage. But yes, there will be no one held to account, and the woeful health service will continue to cause misery and suffering in a time of huge economic worry to boot. Coffers have been emptied but sure plenty more where that came from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I see him more as a selfish egotist who has clearly bought into his own hype and sense of importance - just look at his stance on the nursing home that was proposed beside his house in Dalkey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Hopefully he’ll report the last hospital figures too. Down almost 150 over the past 48 hours.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Anyway today is a good day

    We're officially living with COVID



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,322 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    I've said it before Pat Kenny is an old fella.

    He's travelled(probably), achieved well career wise, married/had a family, etc.

    He doesn't have to worry about making living, meeting somebody on dates/nights out, making friends at college, clubs, etc.

    If we lived in some type of semi permanent lock down for the next twenty years. It would make little difference for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭mollser


    That interview with Varadkar on Prime Time last night was hilarious. Varadkar, love him or loathe him, was always the best communicator throughout the pandemic.

    Firstly, Varadkar is currently isolating with this dreaded disease. However the interviewer didn't have the courtesy to ask him how he was feeling, presumably because he was feeling great and it didn't fit the narrative.

    Varadkars response to the hysterical questionning about the dail bar mask rules was comical - 'yes, I'll wear it when I arrive, then I'll take it off while eating my scone - so whatever benefit that brings, I dunno' or something like that, also with a bit of a smirk at the interviewer.

    But finally, the main point is really strong - there is no emergency, for fining people for not wearing a mask on a bus etc is not proportionate anymore. There may well be an emergency in the hospitals, but covid is only a contributor to this, the hospitals are a shambles and that's for the HSE to sort out.

    Good interview - it's been great that the government / cmo have stayed very strong and, at last united, in the face of a media / union onslaught - happy with their performance the last couple of weeks (at last!)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    It’s impossible to have a proper discussion about this because they are too many idiots who think we never needed to do anything and could have just continued completely as normal and everything would have been absolutely grand. Wait till you see the replies to this post.

    I agree there’s a discussion to be had on that but the discourse in this forum is on the same level as the daily mail or YouTube comments section so it’s not the place for it. It’s mostly just a place for miserable people to have a whinge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Hes s good communicator varadkar

    Probably had to be with that name



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,736 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I hope you realise the irony of your last line in the context of the rest of your post



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭kirk.


    This is the level we're dealing with and what we fought off



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    Fran McNulty was a national embarrassment last night. Like a dog with a bone over masks. How many times have members of the government had to answer the exact same question this week. Fair play to Varadker for laughing it off, it's all one can do in the face of such pathetic questioning



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The policy adopted by NPHET was a conservative one and accepted by successive governments. In that context they were always going to look at the public health issue first. In our case that's the poor state of the hospital system.

    I don't know how you imagine that other countries somehow did it better. They all went down this route in some form or another, some to more extreme actions. That there there's a massive ECB fund to help post-COVID is a clear indication that they also experienced difficulties. It is and was a once in a century occurrence and there were plenty of occasions during this where authorities were flying by the seats of their pants or being guided by what other countries were up to.

    I don't agree on the financial costs as the only measurement of success or failure. It was a very welcome approach adopted by most countries worldwide to help support the health policies they invoked. In our case there are a number of excessive measures, particularly in relation to construction but in the main they did put the public first even if it cost a lot of money.

    One thing that was very clear from the outset is that no country had a proper pandemic plan of any shape or size and that is something that needs to be rectified. We can learn a lot from the experience of the last two years.

    BTW due process refers to a legal process. NPHET were legally created under the authority of the MoH. There was nothing underhand about it. I think there are questions in relation to how it was allowed to position itself at times and we will not get anything with that type of power setup again.

    Finally, I find it quite absurd that people want to hold individuals responsible to account because of a virus. The virus is what killed people or put them in hospital, not the main decisions that were made by authorities. They did so in reasonably good faith even if some people felt a need to go absolutely ballistic about them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    I think you’ve misinterpreted my post. Clearly other countries imposed similar measures to varying degrees of success, however you measure that success. The reason I referenced other countries was in relation to the passing of each wave - where it was clear the wave was subsiding but Ireland kept punitive restrictions, negatively affecting society, healthcare and the economy - just in case.

    A cost was expected but I’m contending ours was unnecessarily excessive.

    I was not suggesting anything underhand, the point is outside of an emergency, policy decisions need oversight and due process.

    Also - not suggesting anyone should be held accountable for sickness and death on account of a virus. That would be absurd.

    And I admire your faith in not seeing a ‘power setup like that again’ and that decisions were made in ‘reasonably good faith’, it’s just that that doesn’t quite cut it for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,812 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Literally a day later just like the government and the CMO said, the cases would start dropping. Comical



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    So is it expected that the media will go away quietly now that they didn't get what they wanted?

    They were really something else this past week. Claire B was on a roll yesterday when I had to endure her where I was. Even had celebrity Luke O'Neill on to talk about Ukraine! Is there anything these people wouldn't do for a bit of limelight? The old favorites were all trotted out, with them hoping they would say we need masks, bring back masks.



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