Fair Deal changes might actually happen but...

Its a dumb idea to offer accommodation they don't have and not build some housing, not even temporary housing.

A house thats in the fair deal is usually full of belongings and need of refurbishment, not the mention the legal disputes that go on for years with such properties.

It's not an argument it's the reality.

How are you going to house people with housing you don't have. Are you creating temporary facilities to house them, do you have spare capacity.

Or is this another sounds bite to make people think you're doing something when your actually sitting on your hands.

Its tokenism on the back of other people's suffering and should be called out for what it is.

the state already takes a percentage of the value of the property to pay for care.

You have totally misconscrued the argument there.

Firstly - in my case, like that of I am sure many other we have absolutely zero legal right or ability to enter in to any contract on behalf of the parent in the nursing home as we do not have enduring power of attorney and can not get it in place as my mother does not have the mental capacity to consent. This is fact and as such I can not enter in to a contract on her behalf legally to rent out her assets.

Secondly - The fair deal already takes a proportion of the value of the asset (depending on a few factors) when it is eventually sold when my mother passes away. up to 7.5% of the value of the home will be given to the state to repay (property could be worth about €500,000 - so approx €37,5000 each year. Up to about €112,500. So on top of that you want the property to be handed over in the mean time ?

Thirdly - My mother has an occupational pension which comes in at about €2,500 per month. She contributes approx €2150 per month to her nursing home costs. She also has other expenses such as pharmacist fees, hair dressing, podiatry etc along with maintaining the insurance on the house, EBS connection. So in effect every penny is used every month. We have no issue with that as her pension is to provide for her.

You talk about 'releasing' the property to the market - all sounds good - but this is akin to forced seizure of assets. My parents worked hard all their lives to pay for this property including the 1980s when interest rates were in the statrosphere. What happens when my mother passes away do we then become landlords ? I've no interest in being a landlord - had that misfortune once before and when my house was trashed by tenant leaving me with a bill for over €10k in repairs and zero rent for 6 months I'll never put myself in that position ever again.

Fortunately myself and my siblings don't need any money and are independently financially secure so there isn't greedy children dividing up the spoils while my mother is shoved off in a nursing home.

She has very complex medical needs and it would be impossible to cater for these without 24 hour nursing care ... doing this in a private home would be nigh on impossible due to the cost and the lack of qualified professional available to provide such care. There is a huge shortage of nurses in Ireland and I'd need at least 3 to provide the care to my mother.

In otherwords - you haven't a clue what you are talking about

Apologies - I meant per year !! Yes you are correct - so up to €112,500 off the value of my mam’s house. Thankfully it won’t be up to that rate as her contributions to the nursing home from her pension were quite large so the state’s contribution hasn’t been to that level.

so nothing for free here - and people still think the assets should be more or less seized and handed over to the state

Yes. Which is why I said:

Get out of that. On one hand having people, who have the assets to afford it, pay for their care is "forced seizure of assets" and on the other hand the people who will inherit those assets apparently have no interest in receiving the money when they are sold and the proceeds divvied up. You do realise that none of us are going to live forever - right? And that after a person dies, they don't get any benefit from having the house in their ownership? The only benefit accrues to the beneficiaries of the will.

Try reading it again slowly:

Modify the existing standing charges (i.e. reduce them) but add a variable amount to them to encourage that those properties be rented out. Hardly a difficult idea to understand? You might leave the expectant beneficiaries better off at the end of it if they do decide to allow their juicy inheritance to be put to practical use

E.g reduce the 7.5% charge down to 6% for three years but charge 50% of the market rent as a running charge for the duration the house is vacant.

you clearly are not reading the posts you are responding to and are only here to troll.

What do you not understand - they are paying for their care - My mother is paying 7.5% of the value of her house per year along with over €2k per month and yet you want more.

And on the other hand I hope that in 40 years I’ll have something nice to pass down to my grand children from the fruits of my life time’s work …. This you seem to have a problem with also. My parents lived a frugal life and struggled to pay for their house and as a result of this they never once had to have the state provide housing for them or the dole … but the fact that this asset might be left for their children to enjoy is something that irks you speaks volumes of your position / outlook on society

I'm not the one not reading the posts. Why would you have an issue with changing the 7.5% down to 6% (max 3 years) and including 50% of the market rent of the property? Just as an example.

because some people are not in a position to rent out their properties. again, you didn't read the post you replied to.

You can’t enter a contract on behalf of someone else you don’t have legal authority to do so …..

the more you post the more it is clear that you don’t really understand the subject matter

The Fair Deal scheme is a contract there genius.

If there is no enduring power of attorney and the person lacks capacity then a care representative or a ward of court can apply on their behalf. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

And the person can also be appointed a ward of court. There are always mechanisms.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario. Suppose nobody signs the "Fair Deal agreement". Or the "care representative" declines to sign it. What are the possible outcomes? There are legal mechasims though the courts to release those assets to pay for the owner's upkeep. They won't release them to the son or daughter to buy a new beamer but they can ultimately be accessed for the benefit of the owner.

Everything is a choice. The choices might not include the one you want, but such is life

Your rosy view of life in the olden days is not shared by those who lived then.

with the same outcome. I'm not sure what your angle on this point is? You clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about it - but I'll reiterate.

I was awarded Care Rep over my mother and I needed the agreement of my 4 siblings to have it granted. If I didn't get their agreement in the application I am sure the next move would have been the intervention of the courts to make her a ward of court and used her assets in more or less the same way via something like the Fair Deal. But thankfully we are normal people and want to do what is best for our mother.

Your obsession with children wanting to take the money speaks more about you than anyone else - there is absolutely zero legal way for me to take a single euro of my mother's money / assets to put in my wallet.

If I did manage to take a penny off her while she is still alive would be theft and when probate comes around that will be evident for all to see.

Absolute nonsense coming out of your keyboard

no - it has been pointed out to you that this is possible by appointing a 'Care Representative' in the Circuit Court (which I have done) or making her a ward of court

Incentive is different to forcing the property to be rented out.

Taking in €1000 per month in rental income of which approx 50% will be taken by the tax man isn't an incentive to anyone who has been stung before by tenants

how else do you pay for care for somebody that requires 24 hour care if their income doesn't cover the cost? that runs to thousands a month just for nursing home care. 24 hour care at home would cost more.