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National Hurling League 2022 Discussion

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No idea except to say the players of the last decade are obviously fitter, stronger and faster than those before them. The game itself is much faster and higher scoring.

    It's interesting you had to name one of the all time greats of the game to make your point, would you expect a ref to have been able to spot if Carey was throwing the ball vs passing it, given how good he was anyhow? Fwiw, i've no idea if Carey did ever throw the ball btw, but if you want to do an in depth analysis of each of his bandpasses in any given season, and have the time and tech to do so, go for it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wait a second here, we're discussing the lads at the top of the tree hurling-wise, not the club u-6's. These guys are all pretty skilled, and have been all the way up. I haven't coached GAA at any level, but since you have, how many inter county players (or lads who went on to play inter county) have you coached? What did you make of the rest of their skills?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Are you missing my point I wonder? Which is - this talk about throwing a ball being skillful is nonsense. As I said, a child can throw a ball but few can palm it properly without lots of coaching. The skill of handpassing starts at an early age. Certainly by the time they get to play at senior level they'd have it perfected. Unfortunately inter County coaches ignore this handpassing skill to gain an advantage. As far as I'm concerned, let them at it as long as they pay the price. Throw ball = foul = free.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I possibly am misreading you, apologies if so.

    My view is some intercounty hurlers are skilful enough and fast enough that a handpass can be executed so quickly that a ref can't be sure if it's a proper pass or a foul throw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well as I explained above, if one is to go back in years to find a comparison to use as a means to evaluate the notion that modern players can move their hands faster than players of the past, surely DJ is a good one. A player known for his handpassing ability, a player that didnt get blown for throwing the ball and who played in recent memory. Can you say that a typical player in the modern Cork or Limerick half back line can move their hands faster than Carey? Or if it is the case that Carey could move his hands as fast as modern players, why wasn't he constantly being blown for thrown the sliothar like modern players?

    I watched Carey all his career so i don't need to do any in depth analysis at all, thanks.

    Anyway the whole notion that the modern player is so skilful that they consistently perform legal handpasses faster than the eye can see is an insult to hurling people everywhere. Instead what has happened is, as part of the inevitable move towards a more possession based approach, some teams in particular recognised and decided to capitalize on lax referreeing of the handpass and the fact that they were likely to get away with more throws than they would be penalised for, started utilising a throw with a subsequent pull back of the hand in order to make it somewhat look like a legitimate pass.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    2 things here.

    Firstly DJ retired 17 years ago so yes the fitness and speed is different.

    Second you say DJ is innocent because referees never pulled him for it. I don't remember Gillane, Lynch or Hannon being pulled for it or many Limerick players being pulled by the ref so they must all be innocent too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Of course speed and fitness is different, but as you are fully aware no one on here is claiming it isn't.

    There was a claim made that this increase in fitness and speed is directly responsible for the controversy over throwing we have had for the last few seasons in particular and for the recent glut of players being penalised for throwing the sliothar: that in fact the players due to the advances in strength and conditioning are now executing legal handpasses faster than the eye can see.

    So why don't you come out and state if you believe this to be the case?

    Come on now, no more deliberate ambiguity, no more half answers to questions you weren't even asked, just give your opinion, have developments in strength and conditioning over the last decade or couple of decades lead to a situation where modern players are executing legal handpasses faster than referees eyes can see them and that this explains the situation we have where many pundits, supporters etc. think that we have a major problem with throwing in the modern game?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Davys Fits


    If we are getting into micro physics here then you could argue that at some point when throwing a ball there could be space between the ball and the hand before its released. The whole argument is ridiculous. Sport is full of grey areas but when the grey area is dominating the sport then something needs to change.

    If it look like a throw then its a throw and lets change the rule.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭C4000


    There are two separate fouls in the rulebook regarding handpasses. It's a foul to throw the ball but it's also a foul to handpass without releasing the ball and executing a clear striking action. So it's possibly a moot point about legal handpasses that are too fast to see. If a clear striking action isn't apparent to the ref, it's a foul.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    Croke Park ought to stop sitting on their hands and back the refs regarding the throw ball. They really should contact RTE and explain the rule to the GAA analysts. A few of those analyst wish to turn a blind eye to the persistent fouling of the ball to suit their own agenda. All the more reason to hammer it home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Davys Fits


    I have found the analysts on RTE and elsewhere are buying their heads in the sand on this issue. There are too many 'let it flow' merchants. It doesn't suit their agenda to make negative comments and to call it out for what it is , instead they are more interested in having a free flowing game at all costs so their job is made easier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Daly likes to be seen as the players friend and probably always keeping an eye out for his next job.

    So you will hear this let the game flow nonsense when refs pull throws, or this limerick playing on the edge rubbish to explain their glut of red cards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I have been saying its happening and needs to be cracked down on all along. It was someone else who said the fitness made the hand pass to hard to see.

    My only argument was it's not new.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    TV people seem to have the opinion that the best pundits are former players but I think they have it all wrong. Too many of the old lads see a horrible tackle and think "shure that's grand I used do that all the time" In the soccer my favourite analysts have never kicked a ball professionally and I wish the GAA had more qualified journalists rather than players on panels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭Grats


    The persistent throwing of the ball IS new. I guess that's why there's so much conversation about it. If the throw ball is allowed to continue, sure why not break other rules too such as steps.

    Just to emphasise, PERSISTENT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I mean the steps rule is constantly broken. Another one that's been going on for years.

    You are right though on persistent being new with the hand pass but there were also a lot less hand passes before.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,875 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Definitely would like to see more journalists on as analysts, they're far more likely to call it as it is without their own county affiliation getting in the way and they might provide a different perspective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,967 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users Posts: 583 ✭✭✭Corcaigh84


    In fairness to DJ from what I can remember it was fairly obvious he was making the legal backward motion when handpassing (from either hand). Don't recall him fouling the ball much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not many games of significance left in the final round.

    Limerick v Offaly play to avoid the relegation playoff, KK will probably need a win against Waterford with Dublin playing Laois and Antrim can still stay up with a Win over Tipp again if Laois lose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭mercury16


    So DJ Carey was a multi all-Ireland winning handball and multi world champion winning handball player. He didn’t need to throw it, and yes his hands were that good and fast, and having won what he won playing handball I seriously doubt the modern hurler who doesn’t play handball to his level would have hands that pass the ball as fast as him. So not a good comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,329 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Feel Offaly are going to be hammered by Limerick. Wexford vs Cork is a battle for 1st and 2nd, while Galway vs Clare is a dead rubber but could still be a good game as players will be out to impress

    Yeah Kilkenny need to win or draw to qualify for the semi finals, thankfully Waterford more or less through already. A Dublin win against Laois may be enough for them to get through but need Kilkenny to lose or Waterford to lose and the Dubs score something crazy. Tipperary could qualify if they beat Antrim and Dublin/Kilkenny both lose



  • Registered Users Posts: 490 ✭✭Butterbeans


    But the point being made was that the modern player is too fast for the eye to see in terms of handpassing.....which is complete BS. There wasn't a better handpasser of the ball than DJ in terms of speed, accuracy and power, and there was never any doubt about the legitimacy of his handpasses, so I'd say it's a great comparison.

    And no one needs to throw it, they choose to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    I understood that Antrim are into the relegation final as even if they win, they will lose out to Laois on the head-to-head. Hardly fair considering the good performances and superior score difference, but those are the rules........



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,912 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya your right. I thought it was points difference.

    They could have pulled points out of all their tough games and then blew it against Laois which is mad.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭big_drive


    Any place online to see Cork vs Wexford this weekend?



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