Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

13839414344128

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No more than the macabre games that were played by those with political agendas during the pandemic, it's pretty sick to be at the same thing now that a people need help and emergency help too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    ….says the guy who lives in a country that remains neutral. I would be massively embarrassed if my country was behaving like this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    QED.

    I'm secure enough in my own Irishness not to need to play that game while a people suffer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,207 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    If you're not massively embarrassed by your country's longstanding policies of kowtowing to Russian oligarchs, accommodating Putinism, performative cruelty to asylum-seekers, blatant bad faith in international negotiations and posturing disdain for international law, I really struggle to believe that you'd be massively embarrassed by a policy of neutrality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Believe me I would. And if roi wanted to create a ‘new Ireland’ in which unionists could feel comfortable then it would be essential that the neutrality position would go. Hopefully it will go as this conflict get more difficult, although the managed to maintain it as the rest of Europe took on hitler.

    we are glad to be Europeans in the Uk.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Your insecurity is showing again, Downcow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,207 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Gotta point out that "the rest of Europe" did not take on Hitler; quite a lot of European countries togged out with Hitler.

    Which raises an important point. A willingness to resort to violence is neither inherently virtuous, nor a guarantee of virtue. If Ireland were to abandon neutrality, there is no reason to assume that it would always be a combatant on the side of the angels. (Any more than the UK is always a combatant on the side of the angels. The UK's participation in the invasion of Iraq, for example, was far, far more shameful than any manifestation of Irish neutrality ever was.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    Sitting back whilst others do the fighting and then critising them is bizarre.

    The Ukrainian soldiers who shout 'God save the Queen ' when they discharge the UK supplied javelin anti tank missiles probably don't think about Iraq.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nothing stopping anyone here now, or in the future joining a non neutral army.

    1000's did it in WW2 and can do it today. You'll have a British passport, shouldn't be an issue.

    If a majority want to end neutrality, so be that too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ???

    If the war is affecting your country you are duty bound to address it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    The question was how can unionists be integrated into a Ui.

    I am just saying that any unionists I know would be horrified to be living in a country that would remain neutral either in a war with hitler or putin. That’s all. I am not saying it’s right or wrong - just embarrassing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Unionists or the UK are not at war with Putin.



  • Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And I'd be embarrassed if my 'country' was synonymous with Imperial subjugation of smaller nations, pilfering of national treasures and enslavement of people all throughout the globe, but here we are.

    I'd much rather be neutral than be an oppressor, whose main international contribution is that they are responsible for 60+ national holidays when their former colonies celebrate their independence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭Speedline


    Notice how Ireland hasn't been targeted in any extremist attacks in recent years? It's no coincidence that the countries that have suffered attacks are the ones who have bombed and shot their countries to bits.

    I'm quite happy being neutral. You don't bother us and we won't bother you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Thanks, I thought for a second I must have missed something !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I am interested in what we can do to help others right now. History is for learning from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Yeah that’s what makes us quite different culturally. ‘I’m alright jack‘ is seen as negative in unionist community.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Except when it comes to equality in their own society of course.

    Easy to talk the big talk about something happening hundreds of miles away and send someone else's children off to die. I suspect you're not heading for the front lines yourself though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    There is no one heading for the front lines at this stage. We are supplying those on the front lines with military equipment to protect their families and land as best the can Had they not received this Puntin would be marching towards the Polish border.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 580 ✭✭✭Speedline


    I wouldn't really worry about it. You could still join the british army in the event of a UI. Plenty of irish people do.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    And Ireland have accepted many times more Ukrainian refugees than the UK despite being a fraction of the size.

    Given that Priti Patel contacted the Irish government just in case they decided to pop into the UK when your government is trying to make it as difficult as possible, maybe I'd hold off on a bit of the chest-beating. While you're certainly sending weapons to end Russian lives, we're sending armour, helmets and medical supplies to save Ukrainian lives.

    No doubt Britain has made a strong military contribution, but Ireland has made a strong humanitarian contribution, particularly relative to our size. Both are needed. Perhaps you misunderstanding military neutrality and thought it meant Ireland were doing nothing, you'd be wrong though.

    Post edited by Fionn1952 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭FraserburghFreddie


    There is discussion within the EU about neutrality and it seems Ireland, along with Malta and Austria are referred to as the 'strategic schnorrers' in a number of other countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There are huge numbers in the UK who are anti war and war mongering.

    'Culturally different' my eye.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It’s not a competition guys. Yous are very defensive.

    I was just addressing the op question. No need for all the whataboutery lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Jesus f*cking Christ.....the absolute testicle exploding irony of this is mind blowing (or indeed, testicle blowing).

    I'm sure this made sense in your head at some point, but I don't have half a notion what you're trying to say here, buddy. Thanks for another barely comprehensible contribution, month old poster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭growleaves


    It seems to have already gone.

    Presumably you haven't had a chance to walk around Dublin city centre lately. There are giant blue and yellow flags adorning streets and buildings. Some schools wants all the children to dress in blue and yellow for a day.

    I have mixed feelings about it but it looks like Irish government are unilaterally abandoning neutrality unofficially and are setting in motion the process to abandon it officially (a loaded 'Citizen's Assembly').

    In the meantime Ukraine will be left to twist in the wind either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    It would be great if roi would drop the neutrality and join with the vast majority of Europeans.

    it’s not about blue and yellow flags. It’s about playing their part in the defence of their neighbours. NATO is by no means perfect but if we didn’t have it putin would not stop at Ukraine.

    …..and it’s not just nato membership. Most European’s governments are sending weapons into Ukraine to help them defend their country and families.

    if every country followed the route taken by roi, putin would have already taken Ukraine and would be marching into Poland.

    just saying that I don’t think unionists would be at all comfortable with a neutrality stance in a Ui. A huge amount of our culture and identity is tied up in military and particularly the world wars - as with Uk as a whole. I do believe this is somewhat culturally different from roi - even if francie claims it is not.

    I think there may be something in Irish culture about internal wars and Chieftain squabbles, but Uk is more connected to world conflicts. That’s just an observation but from where I am looking the difference seems stark



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Picking two conflicts that the UK were on the right side of and handwaving away the others in some sort of faux superiority complex, while trying to demean Irish culture is so transparent that it barely warrants a reply, but sure it's a Sunday morning and it's too wet to cut the grass so I've nothing better to be at.

    So yes, we'll leave it with the simple, "of course the UK is more connected to world conflicts.....it f*cking caused an awful lot of them, either sitting in the driving seat when it was a real world power or as lapdog to the US when their own real influence waned."

    It isn't the boast you think it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,653 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It isn't a 'cultural' difference. There are plenty here who would be only too happy to send our young off to fight and plenty in the UK who would be passionately against it, including among Unionists.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,855 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Are unionists aware that Churchill offered De Valera NI should we join with the Allies in WW2. Do unionists look at him as a war hero of their culture etc?


    Surly if EVERY country took our route there would be no wars.



Advertisement