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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    There is ample evidence that Putin does not want to escalate this beyond Ukraine, or get NATO directly involved. He already made his empty threat that countries that interfere with his invasion will face consequences that they have never known in their history. Yet here we are with countries all over Europe openly sending out press releases on what they are sending to help destroy Russian armour and aircraft. They know more about the situation than we are privy to. The sanctions already announced amount to high intensity economic warfare, there's no other way of describing it.

    On top of that, he is actively hiding the scale of the invasion and the losses from the public. He is under more threat from inside Russia at the moment than outside but there has been no martial law announced yet. He has not declared a state of emergency and it seems he has put all his bets on this invasion reaching its goals quickly and decisively.

    There is no basis to argue that we are near the brink of nuclear war as things stand at this moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It seems that the whole thing was a complete miscalculation by the Russians, on so many fronts (no pun intended). They thought they would be able to quickly decapitate the government and place Lukashenkos brother or some other goon in charge without much resistance. This type of plan will only work if it happens quickly and the population are confused about the whole situation.

    They underestimated the resistance from the Ukrainians, the ability of their own forces and the support that Ukraine would receive from other countries. Most likely situation is that the Russians will need to be offered a face saving way out at some point. It would be best for Ukraine if this is done from a position of strength. I don't think it is possible for Russia to prevail in the conflict.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    While it is an interesting video to watch, it doesny really say much thay we don't already know. You're trying to say that people here have no idea what a nuclear war means, when in fact everyone knows. It's end of days, it doesn't need to be spelled out in some b-movie simulation like we're all 5. It's like saying 'do you really know what will happen if we run out of oxygen?'


    Of course we fuckin know.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭deise08


    If Russia is as corrupt as is said, like with the military spending, let's hope its the same with the nuclear programme.

    If the button is pressed, and the missile goes off, that in reality it's only a shell.

    Screenshot_20220308_095703.jpg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Relax brah




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    We would be on the brink of nuclear war if western powers directly intervened by doing as some here are proposing namely putting boots in the ground or enforcing a no fly zone.

    As things stand we're relatively safe, but in light of the fact that the economic sanctions are the most potentially fruitful approach to dealing with this situation the notion of sending troops to take on Russia in Ukraine makes no sense whatsoever and doing so will escalate the potential for nuclear conflict.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'd be okay (not that they need my blessing) with Ukraine ceding Crimea (was Russian anyway until a paper exercise giving Crimea to Ukraine while part of the USSR) plus the Donbass region, simply because they are mostly Russian and want it.

    BUT, Russia went about this the wrong way and sanctions should still be imposed. Nobody should benefit from starting a war, and there being no consequences. Russia will feel threatened from this and will spend more money they don't have on the military... it's what broke them the last time, when the USSR fell apart.

    AND, while Russian gets some new land it has to accept that's the end to it and Ukraine can join NATO and aspire to the EU.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not arguing that Ukraine shouldn't defend itself. I'm highlighting a bigger picture. The refugees leaving Ukraine now will be a drop in the ocean compared to the waves of people that will have to flee the ME and Africa to Europe if this conflict goes on for months or years. Demographics say that Europe need such an influx to maintain population levels, but a) does Europe need to maintain population levels? and b) it will stretch social and physical infrastructure to its limit. I dont do politics, but it's a very real prospect that we (Ireland) should be planning for.

    It's quite likely that the year 2022 will see more people will die outside Ukraine, from starvation due to food shortages, than will die in it, due to the conflict. Trivializing or minimizing of the effects elsewhere just exposes the shallowness of our cares and concerns. Wasting my time saying this, but such attitudes (not necessarily you in particular Herr Kuehn) also feed the resentment and cynicism toward the West found in some people in the ME, Africa, and beyond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,015 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Here's hoping, but you'd figure that if there's one thing they've really put money into keeping up to date, in good nick, and really made sure was done as correctly as they possibly could, it would have been maintenance of their nuclear deterrent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,553 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    You need to re read the thread. There are people saying nuclear war wouldn't be all that bad. They clearly need to be shown how wrong they are.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Considering that the current net zero ideology which proposes to keep all fossil fuels in the ground will mean that fertilisers (which are made using petrochemicals) won't be around for much longer if the greens get their way

    Currently levels of global food production based heavily on that fertiliser use means that the world actually has a surplus of food. Problems are mainly with localised food supplies with hunger and starvation being as a result of localised corruption, inequality, warfare and local environmental conditions. Of which places like Africa tend to be particularly affected and that's before any wars in other parts of the world.

    This simplefied overview gives a synopsis of some of the existing problems of our global food supply.

    https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, exactly. Millions were in crisis, before all this kicked off, Covid made it worse and the conflict in Ukraine threatens to make it catastrophic. The ripples are already being felt.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sick for kids in Moscow who thought it'd be cool to go college in Vladivostock 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The food aspect is how Russia can turn the world on its head.


    It will come right in time, as you say, but replacing the most fertile and productive region in the world will take time.

    The fertilizer story is part of that, it will see food double in price. People seem completely unaware of the inputs price crisis in global agriculture, understandable given that food comes from a shop, not a farm.


    Telling a billion people who depend to a greater or lesser degree that food supply will come right after a few years is not going to fly.


    Look at the little rise that led to the Arab Spring and that was in a good year for grain. This year and probably next will not be good years for grain.

    Just take Egypt alone, 100mn people and most of its food comes from the Ukraine and Russia. It's a massive producer of nitrogen, it's selling it now at a 300% markup.


    There will be significant demand destruction in demand for grain, the staple food of much of the world.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Telling a billion people who depend to a greater or lesser degree that food supply will come right after a few years is not going to fly.|

    That's what I've been trying to say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    They've built up huge goodwill worldwide and the sniff of continuing as before with corruption and support of dodgy neo nazis in their ranks could snuff that out pretty quickly.

    The Azov regiment is an official unit of the Ukrainian army. How does that problem get solved?



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Food has been too cheap in the West and has been commodified to an absolutely ridiculous amount. There'll be profiteering that'll happen, obviously. Talking to my mate in Canada last night, even though they produce huge amounts of oil their petrol prices have jumped (he drove past one place with the intention of filling up on the way home, went up 25c when he was coming back) is just another example of the system being far too fixed and not flexible. Similarly with food. What SHOULD happen (and would have even 30 years ago) would be somewhere like Ireland changes the diet just a little bit, the vast majority of calories consumed in Ireland should come from Ireland and what excess there is can go out. When you consider 30%+ of all food is wasted there really should be enough slack in systems to cover a 10-20% drop in production without prices instantly quadrupling. Alas I think too much work has gone into creating the current system so I don't see it changing.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What do we actually know about Russian 2nd strike capability? Should we halve or more the number of warheads they're meant to have? How many are they meant to have built in the last 30 years? Do we believe they're properly and well-maintained and ready to go?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    From what I've read, there's a percentage (20%?) of people in that regiment who are basically neo-Nazis. It seems like a problem that could be managed.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One thing I've been noticing as well, as much as the Russians have held back in certain places (meeting unarmed protestors) it looks like the Ukrainians are holding back as well in a sense. There's an awful, horrific amount of fighting left.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    A complete mis reading. Russia is Only 13% but it is a massive exporter, the big beast China, keeps nearly all and has an export imbargo, as does America, a reasonable significant player, most is kept local.


    Russia Also controls potash, with 40% of global supply.


    The world can manage without Russian oil, tough times but it will, fuel rationing etc.


    The big story is the massive shortfall of fertilizer globally.


    It will largely only be a problem in the belt above the Equator, Nigeria to Afghanistan. Most countries in that region are not even close to food sufficiency and import Black sea grain and depend on cheap Fertilizer for their own crops, dairy farmers here are struggling to pay for fertilizer and Dairy is largely a big earner, how will Mahmoud afford a tonne of Urea at a 1200 dollars to his door?


    Just to give an idea how productive that region is. It grew wheat at yields similar to the grain farms of modern Canada in pre Fertilizer times and a very high quality at that for bread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,015 ✭✭✭✭briany


    What's their motto? "We gotta kill all the Jews. Except Zelensky."?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭Ninthlife


    This thread was excellent in the early stages as a one stop shop for updates and a central place for various social media posts..

    Now its a car crash of I know what would happen in a nuclear strike more than you do and other fantasies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    I don't really want to go off topic in the thread, but your reply merits an answer as nuclear weapons are not the only threat to humanity, and there is a first for everything.

    I am well versed, well read, and seldom - if ever - opine on matters I know little or nothing about. On certain subject matter I have direct first-hand experience of working within that field of discussion... physics being one of them.

    You're a decent guy... I've read many of your posts. But just like yourself, I'm entitled to my opinion.

    However small the risk, the risk is still there with regards to particle accelerators. We are meddling in matters that are not fully understood at all, and effectively "playing God" with the nuclei of creation. Plus the Cern particle accelerator is continually being made more powerful, whilst other countries are also building them.

    There are hundreds of articles out there from scholars, academics and professors in the subject who express the real dangers of extinction from particle accelerators. Here's just one, where a professor tells it as it is...





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I suppose given that Zelensky is also called a Nazi..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    I honestly don't remember those posts. I do remember plenty of people saying we aren't near the threshold yet where there is a distinct possibility that nuclear strikes would happen, nor should the empty threat lead to complete paralysis or capitulation.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Well of the Russians I've known and known they pretty much all support putin to some degree and they have no fear of ending up in gulags or drinking dodgy tasting tea and in general have no time for those who suffered those fates. As a baseline they accept strongarm tactics to secure their country in ways we just don't anymore.

    They see him as someone who dialled back the oligarchs and saved Russia from the post Soviet free for all. And he did to some degree for the average Russian. Yes he and his cronies kept raping their resources, but he let enough crumbs fall from his table to make a noticeable difference to the average Russian compared to what had gone before. And he made Russia look more relevant in the world too. He was, and by quite a distance, the lesser of two evils. Considering the state of the country it's quite understandable for many Russians to see him as good for Russia.

    Plus he plugs into the apparent need for a czar type figure and he's surrounded himself with the trappings of that including support for the reborn Orthodox Church, who in turn support him and as far as liberalism they make the Catholic Church look like progressive hippies. The anti LGBT legislation is supported in Russia in ways that are now alien to us, especially in Ireland. We tend to forget how they would have been on point only a couple of generations ago in this country and we wouldn't have needed top down pressure to buy into it either.

    Actually if I were to sum up my personal experiences in an obviously extremely simplistic way the Average Russian(tm) of today is akin to looking in a mirror of us in the 1950's. Nationalist, inward looking, religious/moralistic, defined gender roles, defined propagandist history and quite insecure to critique and 'outside influences'.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    There is no point worrying about particle accelerators. We need to be worried about more pertinent issues such as the emergence of a Godzilla post nuclear explosion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 665 ✭✭✭goldenmick



    @nullzero

    Maybe do the first bit of research on how a nuclear war would play out before allowing your opinion to dictate the future of our species.


    Quite amazing how when any poster expresses an opinion that differs to yours, you immediately attack them and accuse them of having done no research or not knowing what they are talking about. Must be a great feeling to strut around your town or village smug in the knowledge that you're smarter than everyone there. Obnoxious is a word that could have been invented just for you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭josip


    A friend of mine rode to Vladivostok and back on a (motor)bike. Big country.



This discussion has been closed.
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