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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    You are probably right.

    I'm finding it difficult to articulate how dismayed, enraged, scared ... <insert any and all strong emotion here> this thing is making me feel. On the one hand I'd want to see the killing stop ASAP (on both sides!), but on the other, believing that if Ukraine and yes, by proxy, most of the rest of the world, capitulates or surrenders or makes concessions, we doom ourselves. Maybe not immediately and maybe not in an apocalyptically sudden 'End Of The World' style, but death by a thousand cuts - despots threatening other countries about who and how they make alliances, backing up their threats by effectively saying "it would be a shame if we had do what Russia did to Ukraine, wouldn't it?".

    I have no grand plan to solve this war. I believe that what Putin has done is illegal and I don't believe that he should profit by it in any way. Easy for me to say, sitting here in comfort and ease in Ireland. And that's also something that's causing me strong emotions, shame being one. Shame that I'm allowing people in Ukraine to fight and die for me and I feel like there's f*ck all I'm doing for them.

    So I apologise for lashing out at you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Does he elaborate on the 'plenty' of other options they had?

    Are they anything other than 'sit there and watch while we expand our 'defensive' military alliance to within a few hundred kilometers of your capital'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,385 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I don't disagree but are Ireland not one of the most food secure countries in the world?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No idea. Personally I think they'll have to put it to Russia that they have to fully withdraw, FULLY, from ALL Ukraine regions including Crimea etc and reparations to be paid to cover the damage and losses.

    Wont happen though, Putin is a basket case.

    At this stage I don't see how we avoid a WW



  • Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The hashtag #Istandwithputin is trending on twitter. Some of it is people asking 'why the **** is #Istandwithputin trending?' but a lot is genuine support.

    As someone said earlier we live in a bit of an information media bubble here in the west. If most of Russia, India, Pakistan, China, Central America, and even a significant group in the USA support Putin, that's a Lot of people.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Perhaps not invading a sovereign country and butchering innocents to rewrite history?

    Countries are free to join NATO, now we see why. Finland and Sweden are now considering joining for the glaringly obvious.



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yes we are. And we are incredibly privileged because of that. But the impact beyond Ireland will be massive. Even within Ireland it will be serious. The IFA put out a statement about the conflict recently that's worth reading: https://www.ifa.ie/campaigns/impact-of-the-russia-ukraine-conflict/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Hopefully China can persuade him to pull back with some promises of internationally run referendums but I'm not optimistic



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Actually I think the West missed a trick by not inviting the Russians into NATO in the 90's when the future of the country was in flux. We were pretty quick to welcome the ex Soviet vassal states into the fold, but with Russia herself the ball was dropped IMHO. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but it did seem like an opportunity lost.

    Like you said we could have had Norway++ and even a more local manufacturing base instead of China, which in day to day terms holds us more by the short hairs than Russia does. The astonishing and welcome speed of sanctions against Russia will come back and bite a few sectors in the West, but now imagine the same level of sanctions against China. Well for a start I'd highly doubt they'd be imposed to nearly the same extent or with nearly the same haste if they went for Taiwan.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,592 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    True. Putin has by all accounts surrounded himself by KGB yes-men. Scary times with that headcase in charge of 6,000 nuclear warheads and nobody seemingly wanting or able to reign him in .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭deise08




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,978 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed sanctions hurt us, but they hurt Russia 100x more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Another Putin Apologist? OK.

    I presume your thinking is that Putin had no other option other than to invade Ukraine, bomb the **** out of it and undertake the ethnic cleansing of the Ukranian people even though its not part of any "defensive military alliance"

    So you're asking me - why would countries like Ukraine (who's just been invaded by Russia), Sweden and Finland (who've just be threatened by Russia) seek to be part of a defensive network, which appears to be the only thing holding Putins land grabbing megalomaniac ambitions at bay? No sorry absolutely stumped on that one. >insert irony emoji<.


    Edit. Thanks @Dohnjoe you bet me to it!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    No idea. Personally I think they'll have to put it to Russia that they have to fully withdraw, FULLY, from ALL Ukraine regions including Crimea etc and reparations to be paid to cover the damage and losses.

    Wont happen though, Putin is a basket case.

    I agree, that won't happen, but not because Putin is a basket case, more because no leader in his position would accept that. Not when the threat of mushroom clouds is in the room. Those across the table from him know this too and beyond the rhetoric that's attractive in the early days, they'll be looking for a longterm practical way out to 'save face' all around.

    At this stage I don't see how we avoid a WW

    Well for me we've been in WW3 since 911 happened with ideology against idelogy and hundreds of thousands dead in many places in the world. It just wasn't a massed army against army type. I would say today we're more in WWTF? I don't see Putin invading Poland or any of that. Sabres will be rattled alright, but IMHO his generals would stop him, especially after the cock up of this invasion. Their military have been a complete amateur hour for the most part and the Ukrainians have won the hearts and minds on Twitter war by overwhelming force and held back his forces to a degree that no way did he or his advisors envisage going in. They may have 'poked the bear' but said bear turned out to be arthritic, mangy and blind in one eye.

    And let's face it this isn't a proxy war fought elsewhere with brown people doing the dying because I'm not paying three dollars a gallon for my SUV! It's White people killing other White people in Europe. Clearly this has a much bigger impact on how things play out as we've seen in the last week.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I agree.

    Twitter famously booted the President of America off its Social media platform for inciting violence and other things.

    Today twitter is hosting Putins official account. The same guy who just invaded a sovereign country and who is now undertaking a mass programe of ethnic cleansing there.

    I reckon twitter desperately needs to get its **** together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's always telling when someone describes NATO practically as an autocratic nation "expanding into" (read: taking over) other countries.

    They never ask the question of why Russia's neighbours feel the need to voluntarily join a defensive military alliance in the first place.

    Obviously the notion of democracy and self-determination is a difficult one for Russia and their apologists to grasp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    We are,6th biggest beef exporter etc etc but our grain isn't really good enough for bread compared to others.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "No country can improve their security at the expense of another country's security". From the Russians who've just invaded a neighbour. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭AxleAddict


    Yeah - Lavrov's diatribe was pretty thick with irony - pretty much everything he accused the west of could be applied ten-fold to Russia. Bizzare logic.



  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's how they operate I guess. I mean sure they're invading Ukraine but someone said something 4 years ago so there.



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  • Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you are in Oil and Gas then you can assume you are using the SAP industry solution for Oil and Gas.

    Not obvious to the general public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Let's call a spade a spade here, if you towed Ireland to the middle of the Black Sea and plonked it there, every single person in this thread would be scrambling to join NATO.

    We live on a windy rock, far away from the direct threat of Russia, but only because there's a couple of dozen NATO members in between that effectively gartuntee our security.

    All the sh*t talkers making excuses for Putin would be singing to a different tune if they lived in a country bordering a Russia led by that creep.

    Have Finland suddenly been transformed into a country of warmongerers? Of course not, it's a country that doesn't want to have its way of life f*cked around with by a fascist and Nato is the means to prevent that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Someone not getting to play a tennis match /drive a very fast car vs people being slaughtered in their home…..I have very little sympathy for these sports people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭purplepanda





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,914 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    There was an excellent documentary about tv rain (Dozhd) on bbc4 last night on their fight to remain an independent news source, tango with Putin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    Yeah this is something I cannot grasp. Does Russia seriously believe that other countries shouldn't be able to improve their defensive capabilities in case it erodes Russia's offensive abilities.

    Yet it seems Russia has no problem in continuing to develop offensive capabilities to erode other countries defensive one.

    They really are in their own little world.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bayonet


    It's mostly Indians and Muslims. Strange bedfellows there. Muslims aren't too enamoured with the USA, so there's a knee jerk reaction to support Russia. Sad that the victims (Ukrainians) are cast aside in foreign policy arguments. There's no nuance these days. It is possible to look at each individual conflict on its own merit. No one can look at this war objectively and say Ukraine deserved it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,238 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Interesting point.

    It should be noted that twitter waited until trump was no longer president before deleting him which is BS. Like if you're going to do it, means more to do it while still president.

    If Putin got outed next week twitter would ban his account only then. Twitter must lick their finger and check the direction of wind each day haha.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,204 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Russia cannot afford to cut off the gas. At present they have no other market for it. It cannot be stored and the taps out of the gas reserves cannot be turned off.

    By actually not taking Russian oil exports the West is making it even harder for Russia to turn off the gas pipeline ( even if it ever would consider it) as it's it will not I come stream now.

    Slava Ukrainii



This discussion has been closed.
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