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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭NedsNotDead


    With the mask requirements being dropped by the end of next week and essentially all restrictions removed I'm amazed this thread is so active.

    I mean what is there to agure about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭timmymagoo


    about 4 months ago I met a chap I know a little. He is early 60s and a public sector employee senior role

    he basically gave me a 10 minute sermon on why restrictions must stay and vaccines should be compulsory for all including babies

    I usually let these things go and just nod my head, just easier.

    but that day I was very tired and had a headache, so I calmly told him that the last 2 years was very very tough on the young, the poor, those who suffer from mental health issues and many others. He did not like my answer and was preaching again about how people need to stop obsessing with money and with themselves and we must start acting as a community.

    I snapped and told him that was easy for someone like him who owns his own home and has a nice public sector job that was not affected by government policies. And that if anyone tried to compulsory vaccinate my young children without my approval it would not end Well for them. I am a very conservative catholic and we are not the type of people you fcuk with.

    that man won’t even say hello to me now, it’s a strange time we live in.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some definitely feel better trying to tell themselves than anyone who challenges their relentless bullshit is somehow damaged by projecting opinions onto them that they have neither expressed or believe. It’s the only refuge from confronting their own delusions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I notice today,that Boris Johnson has used the "self confidence" phraseology for the first time that I'm aware of.

    Of equal interest is the Word Health Orginization forming up to give him a belt of their Crozier due to his virtual abandonment of their Guidelines.

    But in a BBC interview, he said that with case numbers and hospitalisations from the Omicron wave apparently under control, it was time to revert to "personal responsibility" rather than legal mandates.

    "I'm not saying that we should throw caution to the wind. But it's time for everybody to get their confidence back," Mr Johnson said, after bringing forward the plan by a month from when the current law was due to expire in late March.

    Has Mr Johnson been reading this forum I wonder ? 🙂

    It's really interesting and of significant note that the charge against the Prime Minister's accelleration of his post-pandemic timetable,is led by the likes of the WHO's "Special Envoy" for Covid,a gent with close ties to that Palace of Covid "Statistics" Imperial College London.

    David Nabarro, the World Health Organization's special envoy for Covid, said that scrapping the law on self-isolation was "really very unwise indeed".

    Good man Davey,you tell 'em 🧐

    Of course what's REALLY worrying David and his many pals across the Covid globe is other Juristicions being exposed to this return to Liberty & Democracy...I mean what is your average Australian,Austrian,New Zealander,Spaniard,Canadian or Scots to make of this "Freedom of Choice" malarkey....

    He BBC radio yesterday: "I really do worry that Britain is taking a line that is against the public health consensus - that other countries, other leaders will say if Britain is doing it, why can't we, and this will create a bit of a domino effect around the world."

    David and his WHO companions really DO fear this breaking of ranks,something which Johnson has quite a flair for across many different scenario's.

    I believe that Johnson sees,to a degree not yet obvious to other Western leaders how much 2 years of Over Reaction and Over Regulation has damaged the core fabric of Western Society to a degree best displayed by Macron,Trudeau,Kurz,Scholz,Sanchez in their continued reliance on the WHO for permission to live normally ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart



    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I don't think he's saying that anyone who disagrees with him is mentally damaged but that the hysteria over covid has induced anxiety disorders, OCDs and phobias among the population in general. I agree and its a point I've made myself.

    The level of panic from media, governments and institutions was dishonest and unjustified. Anyone could see through it if they wanted to but so many chose to run with it.

    The specious comparisons to the Spanish flu, the bogus predictions of hundreds of millions of deaths, the transparently dodgy modelling from Neil Ferguson (who made a string of wrong predictions in previous pandemics) etc., etc.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are all engaged in a groupthink which projects the outcome here in Ireland, post restrictions, vaccinations and after 2 full years, a milder variant, as being all that was ever going to result from the pandemic, ignoring the vast swathes of the planet that have had multiples of the death rate here. Peru 0.6% of total population, Bulgaria 0.5% as just two examples. And that’s just on official rates. Globally estimates put the death toll at between 2 and 4 times official counts, which puts it up there with Spanish flu.

    And does no one here realise predictions made at the start were based on no mitigation with a wide range of outcome



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'And does no one here realise predictions made at the start were based on no mitigation with a wide range of outcome'

    I do realise that because I read the original Imperial College London paper, linked it here on boards and quoted from it. That was one of my first arguments: these predictions are based on an abstract scenario of no mitigation measures whatsoever which wouldn't happen and didn't happen.

    As you might remember, lockdown were not even mentioned as a mitigation measure in the ICL paper - having little or no provenance in Western medicine. Adopted on the fly by the Italian government after borrowing it from the Chinese, then borrowed from the Italians by others.

    Those estimates are totally bogus given the huge over-counting of deaths. Basically anyone with a cold who also died of any cause whatsoever was being counted as a covid death.

    If we are using these high upper range estimates for covid then we would match that with the upper range estimates for Spanish Flu, which highest death toll has been estimated at 100 million dead. So its still roughly 10x higher.

    Like I said, then and now, you'd have to be deeply confused to compare the world now to one hundred years ago when millions were weakened by a world war, supply blockades (Austria and Germany were starved out by the Allies prior to invasion), aspirin posioning, cykotine storms so that younger populations died in the millions, lower standards in medical technology etc., etc.

    It was clear to all by April 2020 that covid wasn't what people feared it would be, some kind of Black Plague destroying humanity. Yes some third world countries had higher deaths than first world countries but that doesn't vindicate tormenting people with a system of bureaucratic control and isolation, its just that we're lucky to be rich - as too are no-lockdown countries like Japan and Sweden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭timmymagoo


    The rights and wrongs of the last 2 years will become clear over the next 2 years.

    How the economy goes and the fallout from school closures, restricted health services, restricted social services will become very clear very soon

    and if the answer is an many expect including me, than those who made the decisions for the last 2 years and those in the public who backed those decisions must be held accountable



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Overcounting? I am sure you have evidence for that. The estimates are based on the excess death rates and are made using the same methods as with Spanish flu.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I don't believe it, as lockdowns themselves surely contributed to excess deaths - as you yourself said at one point.

    Simply taking everything from the excess death column and putting it into the covid column doesn't establish what happened.

    But in fact these estimates are notoriously vague and flexible for a reason because its hard to say, which is why you see things like "Spanish Flu 1 - 100 million dead" which reads like a joke because of how inexact it is. We'll never pin it down for certain.

    But my point is if you quadruple covid deaths that is surely the upper end of the prediction scale. Well the upper end of Black Death estimates is that it killed 60% of 450 million people across Europe and Asia. Spanish Flu upper estimate deaths is 100 million.

    So they're not really comparable.

    Asian flu (1957-58) and Hong Kong Flu (1968) are in the same rough range as covid, as I've been saying all along. But that's not as scary and it means admitting that many people alive today did live through pandemics already and weren't confined to their homes with free enterprise suspended by government decree, that they happen every few decades and aren't earth-shattering.

    The measures themselves played a large part in dramatising the whole 'crisis'. Imo TB was a bigger real crisis for this country if you are just going by the diseases and not the all-hands-at-panic-stations reaction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭timmymagoo


    There were 25,438 deaths of persons aged 65 and over registered in 2019 and this accounts for over four-fifths of all deaths registered in 2019.

    above is 2019, I have tried to get what was corresponding results for 2020 and 2021

    i don’t want links, just the numbers

    thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,679 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    I was in a large supermarket north of the border today and was extremely surprised by the numbers wearing masks. I'd put it at over 50% that were wearing them. There were very few staff members wearing them though.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,900 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    More and more pro mask pieces are popping up within the media.

    The desperation at this stage is getting annoying.

    Independent has a piece about we should be waiting until at least the end of winter. Christ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The CSO website has all the numbers, i don't believe 2021 data is available yet (or wasn't last I checked).

    Their spring 2020 to spring 2021 dataset was very well put together, clearly showing when excess deaths occurred and when they didn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭timmymagoo


    Thanks but no thanks

    I just want someone to answer my specific query

    if you can help great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    It's far from desperation.

    The fact that such guff is "popping up" within the media says a lot.

    This tactic is hardly a coincidence,and fits well with the next weeks coverage.....all part of the "In it all together" stuff.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    That is true. I saw some reports that were saying that roughly 30% of excess deaths were caused by lockdowns in US.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask



    "Sadly" he says.

    Holy f*cking christ that man is just pure evil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    To be fair to him I don't think he means it that way. With 'sadly' he means he would have wished that the vaccines would have been faster than the virus but 'sadly' they weren't.

    So I don't hink he's evil just very misguided and with a lot of hubris. Dangerous but I don't think he means 'evil'.

    Save us from the do-gooders is what comes to mind. Especially when they come with as much money and power as this guy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I took it as meaning that Omicron negated the need for vaccines - as he says himself they have more supply than customers at this point.

    All about the money IMO. "Next time" he'll be ready!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I don't know. This guy made so much money he's literally giving it away. He sees himself as a philanthropist. And has the hubris to decide for all of us what's good for us. Plenty to dislike but I wouldn't call him evil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    I’ll have to agree with that. I think he is ‘sad’ that the vaccines have not been what has gotten the world out of the pandemic, that they have been superseded by a very mild strain of the virus. I think deep down he was hoping that vaccines will have bigger impact, that there will be more time to produce different kind of vaccines and prove that the mRNA technology works and that it could be the worlds ‘insurance policy’ against the next pandemic.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Nah not evil, but as you say, thinks he knows better than the rest of us.

    He may have more money than he'll ever need but there's his partners and fellow philanthropists who will want to see a return.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    I agree with what you say. But don't necessarily agree with Kaiser that its about the money for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,252 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    For Bill himself it's probably more his "legacy" alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Well, he was one proponent of making sure that the vaccines are not commoditised, so there is this business man streak about him, and I can see how and why he could be accused of ‘grabbing onto profits’.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Was in the local chipper yesterday and I was the only person, children excepted, who walked in without wearing a mask even though food places were the first to drop mask requirements (along with pubs).

    Gonna take a while to get rid of those face rags.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I've stopped wearing them anywhere bar pharmacies



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You can build your own adventure using your own research 😅



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