Remote working - the future?

Hotblack Desiato · 09-02-2022 7:02pm

Stupid article is stupid. But it is the Indo.

Whether I'm wfh, in the office, or on holidays, I still have to eat lunch.

It's up to me whether I make a sandwich, buy one, eat in a cafe, etc. etc. whichever of the three I'm doing.

Many people will easily exceed the €100 purely on transport costs alone if back in the office 4 or 5 days a week, especially with fuel prices as high as they have become.

Mrs OBumble · 09-02-2022 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596334#Comment_118596334

Outside of the rarefied atmosphere of academia, you will find sales reps, social workers, budget advisors, home-care team leaders, engineers, housing officers, debt-collectors, visiting teachers, educational psychologists, fire safety officers - and many other people who both travel between clients (this counts as work), and do some aspects of their job from their car. How do I know? Because I've worked with them.

Re my other comments: I'm currently working for the local branch of a UK based organisation which has a WFH option for a long time. Their WFH policies are based on their experience, and they've learned the hard way to include things like:

Separate lockable workspace or no visitors to the home during the day (maybe you aren't lucky enough to have friends or family who visit - other people are).

*Make sure your laptop screen cannot be overlooked by anyone, including from outside your windows (you'd think people would be smart enough to not need this written down - they ain't)

*If you would need childcare in place if you were working from the office, then you need the same arrangement in place in doing WFH.

If your childcare arrangement breaks down, then immediately stop work and inform your manager (just like you would in the office). Do not try to "get by" - we are NOT responsible if you do this, and your child gets injured.

If this gives you a giggle and you think it's nonsense, when that's statement about you.

And I'll say again: I'm not opposed to WFH. But it needs to be done properly (not in a make-do fashion) and to acceptable to employee, employer, business partners and customers/clients/patients. If any one of those isn't happy, then it's not a suitable job for WFH.

gauchesnell · 09-02-2022 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118608127#Comment_118608127

Yeah none of those jobs you have listed are remote working - they are jobs that involve travel to locations on occasions which is vastly different from remote working/working from home. My job when im on campus can involve travel - thats not remote working/working from home

Yeah I agree that remote working needs to be done properly - but in my workplace we have a remote working policy already in place. It still in place now and will be updated to reflect the changes happening in govt/roll out across civil and public service. The only ad hoc arrangements Ive seen have been in private sector.

And those examples you have listed from your company are just daft - except for the seperate lockable workstation - which is normal practice anyway.

Maybe its a thing in the UK but my employer cannot dictate/comment on childcare arrangements nor would I inform my manager if my childcare arrangements broke down. That is none of their business. Perhaps someone working in the private sector would comment but putting like that in any policy might possibly be discriminatory. My personal life is not referenced in our remote working policy. An employer may provide guidelines regarding your home work station - not your home.

Whether that policy would be legal in Ireland I dont know. Your employer has no rights to dictate what childcare arrangements you must have in place - or even to know if you have kids. Weird.

Yes Im still giggling.

Flinty997 · 09-02-2022 11:46pm

Those rules sounds like a primary school project from the 90s. Dated and the grammar is terrible.

gauchesnell · 10-02-2022 12:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118608538#Comment_118608538

and creepy dont forget creepy

magicbastarder · 10-02-2022 12:32am

may be of interest to some here - a podcast episode about the evolution of the office (and office furniture) with some musings on how remote working is and isn't being addressed:

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/reaction-offices-and-the-future-of-work/

Sarn · 10-02-2022 1:24pm

We would have a similar policy on childcare, as above. The childcare arrangements are expected to be the same if you’re WFH or in the office. This policy was suspended during the pandemic.

While your employer can’t dictate what type of childcare you have in place, they can stipulate that the employee should not be responsible for their care while working. Less of an issue with children that can look after themselves. At the end of the day the employee is paid to focus on work.

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610179#Comment_118610179

which is fair enough to be honest, now how it would be monitored or enforced is another thing, and im sure everyone will be along to tell me work is about output who cares when you do it etc, but if you arent available for meetings when everyone else is thats disruptive and inefficient.

bertiebomber · 10-02-2022 1:34pm

It will be claed back mark m ywords no employer trusts their employees 100% thats why they invented the frustrated middle manager !! That same manager is surely suffering these last 2 years as his ability to bully the employees has been diminished considerably!!

gauchesnell · 10-02-2022 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610179#Comment_118610179

oh ok interesting - never heard of such a thing. Work is the same whether in person or remotely and our policy makes no mention of someone's personal life. You are available for work as agreed same as when you are in the office. How would that even be monitored and why would your employer even know your childcare needs I dont know.

If you are unavailable for work whether remotely or in the office the same procedure applies - at least for us anyway. We dont need to provide detailed explanations for it.

good to get the perspective from private sector

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610216#Comment_118610216

to be fair there is no ambiguity if you are office based, unless you bring the kids with you which is rare enough i would imagine...

gauchesnell · 10-02-2022 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610255#Comment_118610255

yeah see I cant comment to be honest - I work in a university. Is it unusual for kids to be on campus - no. Non issue. If you are unavailable for work thats a different thing.

From my private sector days possibly rare - but not now.

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610303#Comment_118610303

Sorry what do you mean, its not unusual for a member of staff's kids to be on campus? If they are attending the university i get that, but in other circumstances?

10-02-2022 4:30pm

I suppose all this depends on whether you work for an employer or a manager who required you, pre Covid, to record your hours in the office. Some shocking practices here (illustrated by the you-know-whos on this thread) required employees to take unpaid time to go pick up children or go to an appointment or do an essential chore. Even when in the office, in my place, you come and go as you please as long as you do your job. Some days I left at 3, some days at 8. And same in the morning.

if your employer cares about your delivery rather than your presence, then they’re not likely to mind a bit of childcare at home during the work day. Performance is not managed through hours at your computer. The other type of employer, as we can see from Mrs O’B is likely to have a bee in their bonnet about it

gauchesnell · 10-02-2022 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611216#Comment_118611216

Attending classes or events - especially anything sport related whether organised by the university or the community.

University campus are public buildings - open to mostly anyone.

You may not be able to into individual offices or classrooms but if you want to attend our library you can - and you can bring your kids. The grounds are also public and are used a lot by the community which is great.

Numerous reasons.

Flinty997 · 10-02-2022 4:55pm

Woddy - I think it would be unusual to have quite that flexibility.

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611294#Comment_118611294

depends on what you are doing, if its a collaborative role should everyone else who is available during normal working hours have to work around your schedule?

If its a role where you work by yourself with defined outputs an approach like that could work but its obviously not going to suit in a lot of cases.

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611443#Comment_118611443

slightly different thing to bringing your kids to work to be fair.

Sunny Disposition · 10-02-2022 5:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606931#Comment_118606931

Can I ask, why are they bringing ye back to the office? There seems to be a lot of people going back to a hybrid model, even though many of them don't want to. Did your employer explain to you why wfh is being cut back on?

gauchesnell · 10-02-2022 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611713#Comment_118611713

in your opinion - but no. If a staff member wants to or has to bring their kids to the office for whatever reason it is not a big deal. The world does not end and in general nobody cares.

Completely different that a private business I will grant you.

We also provide the same accomodations for students if possible.

whippet · 10-02-2022 5:56pm

there are some crazy sounding comments on here ... but some little bits of sense dipped in there too.

I have been remote working for about 5 years now - we never called it Working from Home as it was alway based upon the notion that you can actually work from anywhere - remote working hub, hotel room, spare bedroom or even the office.

However - it is all based upon the ability to be able to work from where ever you choose. If you work requires a lot of meetings either you get to them face to face or if they are online that the location you are working from is suitable - no disruptions. This will include children etc - during covid common sense dictated that people had no choice when it came to having children in the house, but in normal times you can't expect to be able to work efficiently when minding children.

Our working day is flexible - so plenty of scope to do school runs, appointments, walk the dogs etc .. but we have solid KPIs in place and people slacking off or just not performing stick out like a sore thumb.

Things like auto timed screen locks, proper security on endpoints etc isn't a problem as we are an IT company and stuff like this is second nature .. however - organisation who don't have stuff like this in place are not yet ready to put in a WFH policy. There are prerequisites and processed that need to be in place first.

gazzer · 10-02-2022 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611715#Comment_118611715

No not yet. To be fair, even though we have been told the news about returning the it hasn't been officially announced by HR. I would hope there will be a lot more info in the official announcement.

10-02-2022 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611691#Comment_118611691

No, I’m a manager in an international team and I have meeting and collaborate all the time right across the international business. I still have a diary that I can manage, as do all my team to the most junior

I swear, you’d think that when people start with some companies on here, they forget how to be grown ups

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612249#Comment_118612249

Well it's not typical in my experience of management in multi nationals. And your diary is going to need to be up to date a few days in advance. What if someone needs an urgent am meeting and you decide you aren't starting work until 11am, how is that workable ?

10-02-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612280#Comment_118612280

My diary is probably blocked out at that time. Because I manage my life. If it is genuinely urgent (and in my experience there are not too many things that are genuinely urgent, unless you are tech support) then I’ve a phone and people have my number and know how to get hold of me. It’s not like I’m in the pub. And the odds of me being in the dentist chair at the exact moment of a true crisis (which, like i said, are rare) is pretty small

same for all my team

and same for teams in other functions managed by other director

it’s a grown up culture where there is no value placed on presenteeism

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612341#Comment_118612341

You are either overstating your seniority or how much flexibility you have or probably both.

10-02-2022 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612351#Comment_118612351

I just cannot understand the culture at some companies on here. So you never do for a walk outside of your allocated lunch hour. Or go out to do a chore?

that staggers me tbh, and would not work in those conditions

my company doesn’t have limits on holidays - you take off what time you need with the agreement of your line management and there is no limit. So I suppose very different culture

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612358#Comment_118612358

Ah the old unlimited holiday shill I could have guessed.

That explains it.

You are probably aware that a lot of companies that offer unlimited leave end up with staff taking less leave than before. It's a nonsense policy.

And of course I take a walk at lunch time and go out to do chores but it's expected and I expect that people are available in normal business hours and for my part I make sure to leave my people alone outside that so as not to interrupt time with their family or whatever else they have on.

Cyrus · 10-02-2022 8:35pm

By the way I worked in a company like that before it's probably where you are now us multinational tech company, paid lip service to all that stuff, probably one of the more toxic environments I came across, and as for grown up culture, again probably the most immature organisation I have been in. But lots of virtue signaling and people posting about how amazing their job was.

Sarn · 10-02-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612358#Comment_118612358

Speaking from the public sector in a typical office role, we’d be expected to take a walk or do a chore during our lunch break. You have to be present during ‘core hours’.

Remote working - the future?

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