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Why the reign of SUVs on Irish roads should end

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Looking at some of the names on here, this motoring thread has once again being taken over by twitter cycling trolls.



  • Posts: 14,708 [Deleted User]


    Yip, same old samo. Bitter tree huggers giving out about SUVs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Rubbish. Crossovers were developed in Europe mainly. A crossover is totally different to an SUV. The US is a totally different car market and always was.

    It was always 90% petrol in cars. Engines are huge. As others have pointed out larger saloons generally have higher emissions. I cannot understand how you cannot understand that crossovers are much easier to get in and out of and have greater visibility for the driver. That is why they are popular. Most people actually scarfice boot space for these factors in crossovers.

    I drive a proper SUV because I farm. It works for what I want. It has middle of the range fuel efficiency (40mpg in old money), can tow 2 ton legally and has limited off road capibility. As well the 4wd button saves the clutch on take off or reversing with a trailer behind it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I don't think anyone has an issue with them when they're needed in that sense, you're using it for a purpose it's suited to; you're not driving to brown Thomas in it to buy expensive shoes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭Allinall


    What’s wrong with driving an SUV to Brown Thomas to buy expensive shoes?



  • Posts: 14,708 [Deleted User]


    Both my wife and I drive a Range Rover, we love it. It is luxurious, has a great driving position, is very comfortable in the back when our adult children travel with us. It is a bit difficult to park, but hey, small drawback.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Nothing just like there is nothing wrong with driving an expensive SUV to Penny's to buy shoes either

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The brown Thomas car park, mainly, which should never have been given PP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭LillySV


    Over regulation and govt meddling in the car supply market here for sheer greed is the reason we are now paying way more for cars than we ever did before … we are paying way more than our European and Uk neighbours for old and new cars … it’s driving many to have to buy older more polluting machines as they can’t afford the newer more efficient car models … so if the constant govt meddling was really to reduce emmisions… it’s backfired …to me it was always about sheer greed anyways …

    more politician meddling in the car market will only make it worse again



  • Posts: 14,708 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 14,708 [Deleted User]


    Actually up until last year you could buy reasonably priced cars and import them from the UK, our Government cannot be blamed for Brexit nor C19 causing delays in delivery.

    But I do agree our VRT is outrageous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭harmless


    I agree that these crossovers are nothing like real SUV's.

    Does anyone know if these new crossovers have lower aerodynamic drag than saloons?

    It could be an envirometaly friendly stance that some car owners have taken. Just because they are boxy in shape does not mean they cause high pollutian and are unsuitable for Irish roads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭LillySV


    their greedy vrt and taxation systems were badly designed in such a way that it only encouraged many to bring in high mileage **** into the country .. particularly dealers looking to make a quick buck…look at the cars on donedeal… 2017 cars with 150k miles …madness ..

    theyve upped vrt again since then, introduced nox charges and make it practically impossible for people to get a clear idea of what it cost to import a car now …. That vrt calculator on revenue system is pure crap.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    generally speaking, all other things being equal, if it's got a larger frontal area, it'll create more drag. but how the air slips off the back of the car is also very important, and the higher the tailgate of the car, the greater the vortex it will create behind it AFAIK.

    someone once said to me - and i don't know if there's any truth in this - that if your rear number plate gets dirty easily, it means the car's aerodynamics are not good, as the spray being thrown up from your rear wheels is being whipped around onto the back of the car too easily. i'm curious as to whether there's any truth in that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i used to know a guy - haven't spoken to himin several years so i don't know what the latest on this is - who works/worked for a company which developed cameras for cars. he was saying that car manufacturers were asking for development work on cameras to replace wing mirrors in an effort to further push down drag, i think he mentioned something like a 2 or 3% fuel efficiency saving. getting the regulators to agree to that would be a tough challenge though, i suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,199 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The post I was replying to was talking to was talking about SUVs and mentioned cross overs. You could argue all day what the difference is.

    4x4s and use as farm vehicles is a totally different thing. The current trend of SUVs started in the 1990s and came from the States. Europe didn't have them (in general use) before that. The vast majority of them are not on farms or off road ever, never mind tow. We don't even have the extreme weather that other countries have.

    Taking about not understanding about easy to get into or visibility is a strawman because I never mentioned it at all. I thought the height was obvious. Many are actually quite poor for passengers in the back is all I said. I'm pretty sure the majority of people driving them don't have mobility issues.

    Comparing them to large engined diesel or petrol luxo barges is another strawman. No one thinks of big barges as eco friendly. You generally don't find car parks full of them. There's isn't a line of S class mercs or Audi A8 dropping kids to school every morning. Well not most schools.

    If people like them fine. Each to their own. But they have a lot a drawbacks in the urban environment. Only diesel made them viable for a long time. Now diesel is falling out of favour they will switch to hybrids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,199 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Hopefully the next trend will be those long wheel base pickups. Always wanted one of those.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭harmless


    I gues it could be a factor, reducing flow seperation of the air passing around the car helps with aerodynamics. What you describ could maybe be a sign of excessive flow seperation under the car.

    Would frontal area be larger on the average crossover compared to the average saloon? I know the corssover looks biger but it is lifted higher with room for airflow underneath.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,729 ✭✭✭✭CianRyan


    The Audi E-Tron and Honda E both have these in production models. Honda seem to have a better system and the camera poles protrude less than the wheel arches.



  • Posts: 14,708 [Deleted User]


    If you had ever imported a car, you would know it was very straight forward once you found the car you liked, they certainly didn’t have to be high mileage bangers unless that is what you were shopping for.

    The VRT/nox calculator is extremely easy to use, just that on top of the increases you mention, we have to add import duty which takes away most if not all the saving. But that is not our Governments fault, that is because the cars are now being imported from outside the EU so tariffs apply.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    A lot of the demand for SUVs comes from the need for child seats.

    If you have three children under five, you will find it hard to get a car that will take three car seats in the rear unless you go for a large car like an SUV. Even two kids require an SUV with two car seats in the back.

    Then, when they are a bit bigger, you have to have an SUV to get your kids to school, because anything less shows you up against the other mums. Of course walking or cycling is just too dangerous with all these SUVs around the school parking just anywhere - well as close to the entrance as can be done.

    SUVs are also essential when you must take one kid horse riding, another to the rugby training camp, and the third to gymnastics.

    It is all go - how could all this going be done without the SUV?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    SUVs are also essential when you must take one kid horse riding, another to the rugby training camp, and the third to gymnastics.

    sure three kids that active would be nice and skinny, you'd fit them in an old mini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭harmless


    Good point, many people strive to acchive a high stress, fast paced life style. An SUV can help achieve this.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Cheers, I had been curious about how they might convince the regulators to allow it. Not that traditional wing mirrors don't fail, but they fail in different ways.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 94,849 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    SUV's aren't safer for the occupants than other cars in the same price bracket. It's a supposed benefit.

    They are a lot more dangerous to people outside in collisions.

    They are extremely dangerous for children who can't be seen because of the height. Reversing over your kids in your driveway is an SUV thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭LillySV


    I was looking at doing it a number of times in past but they didn’t have any figures for a lot of the cars I considered so disagree on the straight forward part… maybe that’s improved in last two years? in regards to the rates of vrt and nox, that’s the govt that applies that..not the eu. The only thing that would have to apply now that Uk out of eu is vat… import duties probably too

    anyways doesn’t really matter now cause the days of Uk imports are gone … too dear. …


    govt should be reducing charges on the true hybrid machines imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,199 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    We've had various 5+2 & seater MPVs for many years. Most SUVs have nothing like the space of full sized MPV especially in the book and rear and 3 decent middle seats.

    Most SUVs' are 2.5 people wide in back. Then you have ones with coupe style rooms and reduced shoulder width due to the sides curving in. The same with Saloons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    i can confirm from experience that the side mirror cameras on the Honda e work very well. The screens inside are much better placed than on the Audi (and not an expensive option), I can see other cars doing similar in future.

    Back on thread, I also have a Volvo XC60, it’s prob actually got a smaller footprint on the road than the similar V60 estate while being a similar weight. But for me, the higher seating position is more comfy.



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