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This whole cancel culture myth

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm deliberately comparing the two to make the the point because they are both FICTION.


    Surely they are both part of the fantasy genre since we all know cross dressers and/or trans people (which by the way are distinct categories of people) can never commit an act of violence. They are only ever the victim right?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Getting thrown under the bus by your employer and getting sacked?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I'm sorry but what? Are you new to Chapelle? He's been one of the biggest comedians in the world since the 90's and his comeback tour a few years ago was massive.

    He most certainly wasn't cancelled, and despite being a massive fan of Chapelle, his last special wasn't actually great.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Yes but you’re just being asked to explain specifically how she attacked trans people. If she did attack them then that should be pretty easy, shouldn’t it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That's just silly. Nobody has a right to a job. If you bring your employer into disrepute, they should have the right to dismiss you.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Happens literally every day, and has done for a long time. If I go on a massive racist tirade on Twitter or Instagram, you can be damn sure my employer will crack down on that. I can still get a new job, it just won't be with that company, therefore I still have 'freedom of employment', which by the way is not a real thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    “If this is what being canceled is like, I love it,” the 48-year-old said in response to a standing ovation. The line, and many more like it, was greeted by rapturous applause from the crowd, which included a masked Brad PittTiffany Haddish, Donnell Rawlings, Chuck Lorre, Sterling K. Brown and others. At another point, he was more blunt: “**** Twitter. **** NBC News, ABC News, all these stupid ass networks. I’m not talking to them. I’m talking to you. This is real life.”

    i mean people take the cancel thing literally. its not literal or necessarily happening in real time. not all people ¨canceled¨ have been. but the debate has clearly stoked divide. pretending that it isn´t real helps nobody. has Chapelle been restrained? most likely. his next show will be fine combed through for lots of stuff now. it will be harder for him to get deals. to him it doesn´t matter, he´s made his money. but it matters to society.

    I mean social media and internet, as much as some hate it is technically real. its a medium, and throughout human history mediums have driven culutral change. the printing press, radio, tv etc. all three have clear examples of events that created a seachange in things or drove an event. it doesn´t seem real but alas it is. where did people annouce war? where did the Japanese emperor announce the truce. In print, on radio.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    So you don’t believe that 74m voted for Trump?



  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭starkid


    its a concept and its quite hard to definitively prove ffs.

    but if you think people haven´t been ostracised socially, you are asleep.

    some of the people ostracised are c*nts, others its harder to make the argument.

    but its all a helen lovejoy imagination fest, am i right..

    as others have pointed out its basically bringing your employer into disrepute and if your employer is culture and the public basically, well then its very similar.

    again if somebody like Kevin Spacey does what he does, well then its probably correct he gets cancelled.

    people should replace the word cancelled with sent to coventry. it will do wonders to accept and understand what is happening.

    again saying it is happening, isn´t an endorsement for or against it.

    what annoys me is the hypocrisy around it. pick and choose your sides, and who gets done in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    l have already answered that question, twice. try to keep up with the thread, it isn't that long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭MOR316


    Just on the OP...

    JK Rowling, I have no idea what she said or done that's so bad. She expressed an opinion

    Linehan, I always thought he was just a prat really.

    Michael Jackson, two lads from that documentary had their cases thrown out and were caught lying. There is no evidence of wrong doing.

    I personally don't think you could "cancel" any of them for that.

    Cancel culture does exist. A whole bunch of fuckwits on SM, trying to fish for approval and virtue signalling. Check out the Sex and The City reboot, the male actor getting "cancelled" because he's accused of something. It's trial by social media now. Guilty until proven innocent and even if you're innocent, society labels you a monster, regardless of the facts. It's beyond pathetic!

    If you don't like something, if you don't agree with something, turn it off! Simple as!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    The ballot paper offered a choice of Trump/Pence or Biden/Harris. 74 million ticked the Trump/Pence box. How are you spinning that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i'm not spinning it. they voted for the candidate the GOP put forward. that does not make them trump supporters.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I know it's hard to prove but the right in the UK and US have been pumping out industrial amounts of lies and disinformation for years so taking what they say in good faith would be an act of utter stupidity. They've done this to themselves. I'll believe cancel culture exists when I see proof and not before.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    Linehan didn't just say "Trans man aren't women tho" one day. What he did was was actively harass and gaslight individual trans people for hours a day and encourage his then 600k subscribers to join in.

    Mind you, that didn't get him banned from Twitter. Calling people 'groomers' for not agreeing with his world outlook is what finally pushed him over the edge. Still though, having a private platform ban him for repeatedly breaking their Terms of Use is not cancellation. (Especially when he's repeatedly evading the ban with sockpuppet accounts, literally boasting about buying new sim cards from ASDA in the process) He's free to continue his air his horrible views on his private substack, his podcast or Gettr, the latest alt-right knock off version of Twitter. Which he does. The fact most of his remaining active supporters in these endeavours are completely loonies, and every now and then his discomfort with them shines through, is the "free market of ideas" doing its job if you ask me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Morrissey, Chapelle, Rowling are too big to be cancelled. Their level of fame is too great.

    Smaller people can have their sources of income significantly disrupted though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Here's an example of cancel culture:

    Hartley Sawyer, an American actor who was famous for playing a character on The Flash TV show got fired from said show in 2020. It was all because of tweets he posted earlier in 2012 and 2014.

    2012 tweet: "The only thing keeping me from doing mildly racist tweets is the knowledge that Al Sharpton would never stop complaining about me"

    2014 tweet: "Enjoyed a secret boob viewing at an audition today."

    Immature and shouldn't have said it, of course, but I have read way way worse of twitter. But cancel culture got him and the show axed him. Hasn't had a single imdb credit since. He joined flash in 2017 so someone went back through at least 8 years of tweets in 2020 to dig something up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the second one isn't great but the first one is completely stupid. imagine publicly admitting you are racist in 2012?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭Christy42


    That is capitilism. Not Cancel culture. Actors get payed based off of name recognition and his became bad. That is why famous actors get paid so much more than the average actor. Certainly many famous actors are good actors but not to the extent they get payed. However big names will attract more viewers and more money. Hartley was not a big name to begin, with no real big roles and wasn't going to bring in more money and being mostly famous for dumb tweets is going to lose them money.

    Side point: It didn't take much research to find out those were not the tweets that got him fired, I feel a bit more research should be required in future as what you wrote seriously misrepresents what happened. "Things only women should be in: twilight screenings, gynecologists offices, and Porsches."


    "As a lad, one of my favorite activities was kidnapping homeless women and cutting off their breasts"


    He seems to have a trend, people prefer not to support bad people and so likely would have led to viewers turning off. Should they keep an actor who gets them less views?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    What does the second one even mean? Does it mean he spied on an actress changing her clothes during an audition? (He should be sacked for that) Or does it just mean he took out his phone and type "boobs" into Google cos he was bored?

    That's why you don't tweet the first random crap that comes into your head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Erm... I can only be blunt with this one.... are you alright in the head? Lol. First you say that didn't get him fired, then say I didn't do "research"

    Ermmm...


    So yeah... I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. Normally, I wouldn't bat an eyelid but you come off as "a matter of fact" about it.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I remember when it was considered communism to dare question the wisdom of private entities on this site. Funny how things change just because bigots encounter consequences.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,007 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    The Lord of the Rings was, among other things, influenced by Tolkein's views on what he saw as the ever increasing industrialisation of England, which he viewed as destroying the rural village type of living that he had grown up with.

    It's a clear and documented case (and discussed by Tolkein himself) of an author's views and experiences being reflected in their work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    you only mentioned two of the tweets. there were more including

    Other tweets refer pointedly to violence against women.

    Several tweets refer to assaulting women,

    The tweets also contained homophobic language and some discussed violence against women.

    so the tweets you quoted may have been enough on their own to get him fired BUT there were others as well. This is not cancel culture. this is somebody getting fired for being an asshole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    First one is dumb alright. I think it was his personal twitter before he got going as an actor. Then made the mistake of not deleting it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    dumb enough to get him fired. that it was his personal twitter makes no difference. He wasn't cancelled. he got fired and rightly so.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,208 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    What were the other tweets?

    I only ask cause I remember reading this story at the time (I watch the flash) and those were the only two tweets I remembered.


    Edit

    I see them here https://static3.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Hartley-Sawyer-Stupid-Tweets.jpg

    to me, he comes off as some immature frat boy type who thought he was posting funny things. As I say, I've read way worse on twitter. People who posted absolute vile and not trying to be witty in any way



  • Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭nj27


    Famous individuals who lose their TV show or book deal etc is a just one aspect of this phenomenon, although it tends to get the most attention due to the fame already associated with the individual concerned. The more pernicious aspect is the cancellation of ideas in the media. Chompsky's book manufacturing consent put forward the case that mass media's reliance on advertising revenue lended extraordinary power to motivated individuals and groups who complained to networks about content they broadcast. Fear of losing advertising revenue as well as the capital required to setup and maintain a major media outlet results in a situation where media often buckles to complaints in sufficient volume, stultifying their ability to report on unfashionable stories. This power was once wielded by the Christian right, now it's in the soft and feminine hands of the left, although neither scenario is desirable, but it's basically unfixable at this point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,546 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the three articles you linked to mentioned them but dont show them. this reddit page lists them but the twitter page it uses as a source no longer exists




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,148 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Thats where we are heading for imo and not just for people in the public eye.

    The most innocuous of things can potentially be used to cause difficulties.

    I'll give you an example. Now this is pretty funny imo but its evidence how comments can be perceived.

    A mate of mine watched a video on Facebook of a comedienne that has cerebral palsy, think it might have been from a BBC show. Anyway, the clip was subtitled and he posted a comment saying he thought it was a bit unnecessary having subtitles because she was perfectly understandable. He commented because he thought it was subtitled due to her having CP and that people wouldn't be able to understand her, and that, he felt, was doing this young lady a disservice. Nothing to see here, right? Wrong. The deaf community went ballistic with him. Multiple people started flaming him due to his "insensitivities", calling him disrespectful, deafist, all sorts of things. The harder he tried to explain what he meant, the more people joined in to bash him. It went on for over a week until he eventually bowed out of it. The most hilarious thing is that he is the least offensive person you'd care to meet. He himself is gay and has experience of homophobic abuse over the years so is very conscious of respecting people from all sections of society.

    We live in a world where "Im offended" is like the fuckin bat signal to draw all kinds of loonies out of the woodwork.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How can it be sufficiently "proved"? Despite numerous examples, you refuse to concede there is any evidence that it exists.


    What constitutes "proof" that cancel culture exists?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭Rented Mule


    Louis CK is back touring the United States. He did three nights at The Vic Theater in Chicago recently. He is selling out dates across the US at the moment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think in Rowling's case she has huge leverage over Warner Brothers. They can't do anything with Harry Potter without her consent. I think that's what's keeping her on life support in Hollywood. Otherwise they'd have TERF'd her to the curb.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Using empirical evidence and not right wing opinion.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,070 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    So cancel culture exists but rape culture, racism, misogyny and bigotry don’t? Or if they do they should just be ignored by people “just trying to get on with their lives”?

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There isn't a scientific formula to prove that cancel culture exists. Anymore than there is empirical evidence that racism exists. It's entirely subjective, but most reasonable people would be able to identify a pattern when they see one.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is a difference between isolated incidents that are statistically insignificant, and a series of events that indicate trends/patterns. Most people can agree on that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I wouldn't call it subjective.

    Anyone who has been following the news media for the last 20 years knows dozens of examples, maybe hundreds.

    There was the English scientist who lost an honorary award because he said men and women who work in laboratories fall in love with each other sometimes.

    There was an IQ researcher in Newcastle upon Tyne who correlated university admissions with class background.

    Etc., Etc.

    Why does it need to be presented as "empirical data" (in table form)? That is just a time-wasting request.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Should posters now spam the thread with news articles about PC controversies and firings because pro-PC posters claim to have never heard of such a thing? Bizarre



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Right so by that argument rape culture, racism, misogyny and bigotry are considerably bigger problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,475 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,803 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So nothing then. Comparing it to racism is frankly ludicrous. One exists and one doesn't. It's that simple.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    which makes perfect sense as the WOKE ayatollahs are the new bishops , condemning from their social media pulpit and demanding an artists work be censored , the new " book burning "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,446 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Not comparable with Rowling and Harry Potter.

    Friends is a TV show, devised as a TV screenplay, with a script written for TV by multiple people over multiple years.

    The Harry Potter movies are based on novels, devised as novels, sold and very popular as novels, written by an individual.

    There is no comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Yeah except ayatollah doesn't play dumb and claim he doesn't know what a fatwa is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,257 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    This guy is seriously saying that people getting cancelled on twitter is on the same level as racism. What kind of bubble is he living in?



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