Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

I don't share your mindset nor a need to comment on posters who disagree with you. It has not been discussed and even if it had it would have to be agreed by government parties in advance of moving on to publication. Straight off FG would be a No on it. NPHET are not qualified in any way to comment on the legal aspects of it. As for the move this looks like the work of Donnelly, so very little in that.

I have indeed and in that time I've struggled to help posters get some very fundamental grasp on the political system and how legislation is written. Some sadly remain utterly clueless. NHPET have absolutely no remit for input into general legislation, none. Apart from whatever angry notions are is in your head you don't have a single shred of evidence this will happen.

He didn't rule it out at all. He just said voluntary vaccination was his preference and cited it has worked so far.

I want a stone cold ruling out that it will never be used. Even if Booster 2 or 3 has a low take up.

I think it is the DoH taking advantage of a big bunch of people who are meeting regularly. Departments commonly invite submissions on ideas they have and most of those who they might seek an opinion from are on NHPET, so it's opportunistic. There's also an instant assumption by some posters that NPHET will recommend it as an idea, that's completely unknown.

The ethical side would be thorny enough but the legal would be quagmire to get something that did not obviously go up against the Constitution. As someone observed on the main thread it's all a bit pointless at this stage and very disproportionate when the public responded so well to this programme. I really don't see it happening politically no matter what ideas NPHET might offer up.

Here's Martin on it from a little while ago, he say no!

That header is misleading. He and many others in parliament have spoken out against mandatory vaccinations, yes.

From the article:

Mr Martin insisted that vaccination was the key to curbing the spread of Covid-19, but he said he favoured a voluntary programme.

"First of all, NPHET will examine every issue so that they can give advice to government," Mr Martin said.

I read that as 'not for now', meaning in january. But it is bad news if a prime minister depends on Nphet to 'examine the issue'. Again, meaning that he personally would not favor mandatory vaccinations but you know, if Nphet decides that is the way to go he is likely to follow their advice. Meaning, the leader of a country will let a health body make the rules about something so serious as vaccinate mandates. Instead of leading he is following and does not differentiate between various measures, restrictions or mandatory rules. He doesnt seem to understand the difference between restrictions and mandatory rules.That is such a morally weak position to take for a prime minister. It is hard to imagine anyone with half a brain agreeing to that. But then again..

Pub closing time to be kept under review for now

The skeptic in me thinks this little mandatory vaccination bomb launched by journalists this morning has a goal - get people to accept further boosters and certs / passes to be able to do normal day to day societal activities. After the Omicron outbreak, there should be no further Covid passes, their uses will be obsolete. If they insist on keeping them, include testing as an option at the very least going forward.

I cannot understand at this stage of the pandemic why the vaccination strategy remains the only one. There is a way out here on a plate for Governments - people have been exposed to a mild variant. Many of the population, especially those at risk are vaccinated and many boosted including vulnerable and older. There are therapeutics now coming on stream. It is time to change tactics and exit the emergency phase of Covid. They should do a population sample test for antibodies, they did one back in the Summer of 2020 here and heavily publicised how little of the population had been exposed to the original strain. It would be interesting to see how many of the population have antibodies to Covid at this stage. The U.K. did a sample this year & found a high coverage across their population & dropped all restrictions accordingly. Instead the Government & journalists here keep tweeting about how ‘easy’ it is to get the updated Covid Booster Pass.

We need to "zoom out"

The real question is/has always been, whether we should/continue to, curb the spread of this pox at all.

The issue is with the header of the article. Clickbait. Is there even such a thing as a news editor? Or are they pushing clicks no matter what?

The supposition might be mine but only a fool would call that 'stretching' as MM himself states the context. I am not inventing anything and we have been here before. The only thing i am speculating about atm is whether he will leave all the mandatory vaccinations up to employers like the HSE and customs, state bodies etc. like they had in the US before the suprime court shot it down. The booster system and QR codes are already implemented into the Covid cert and will be a de facto mandatory system rolled out in a broad way to circumvent legal matters. In France you cannot get on a train without a vaccination nor into a restaurant. All you need to do is make it an entry requirement and punish those who ignore it. That is where this might be heading..is that stretching the matter or is it a likely scenario? You tell me..

I'd say its reassuring to hear Martin say he favours voluntary vaccination, but it does beg the question, if that is his preference then why not flatly state that mandatory vaccinations will not be happening on his watch? Its his decision after all, he doesn't need to sugar coat it.

We know the reason of course, he is an indecisive man who is easily led and couches everything in disclaimers, but it is not the strong response such a suggestion requires.

I absolutely do not believe the matter ends there. Covid passports and manadatory vaccinations are part of the same playbook, a number of the big european countries are pushing mandatory vaccination, there is plenty of smoke there. Will it fizzle out? Possibly. But I doubt this is the last time we will hear the word "mandatory".

When other countries opened hospitality they kept the old opening hours, we are the only ones who were different in that regard, and arguably it's not worked in our favour

Yes, it's a "nudge", in the behavioural science vernacular.

Tell people X thing might happen, then they feel relief when Y thing happens, which is still a restriction, instead of the outpouring of anger there would otherwise be.

"Thank god they're not doing mandatory vaccine, I find that unethical" instead of "WTF, they said the booster wouldn't be required on the domestic cert" or "WTF they said hospitality certs were for a few weeks, three months ago" etc.

The 9 euro meal stopped people doing pub crawls, it was very effective pre-vaccination, this 8pm rule though makes zero sense although Micheal Martin says it's working to curb the spread of COVID, as he stands over 20k recorded cases a day and maybe another 40k unrecorded

One positive recent development,post Omicron,is a reawakening of the confidence to Question.

Even if it is,as yet struggling to gain ground,the reality is the Genie is now out of the bottle,and the charlatans will struggle to put the cork back in !

Amen to that !!! 😁