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Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    You could do a pretty able reduction over the contrasting tones of Raimi and MCU by that "captured villain" scene from the trailer: of course the MCU has a knowing chuckle at Doc Ock's name; ohoho, it's so silly! While Raimi never once winked at the audience, treating it all with operatic seriousness.

    I'm staying excited but deeply wary of Sam Raimi helming a MCU film. I don't believe Raimi carries the kind of clout anymore that he could realistically bend the MCU formula enough to make Dr Strange 2 a "Sam Raimi Film". We'll see though, my expectations are configured accordingly.

    On the subject of Spider Man 2, this YouTube essayist did a very good breakdown on its most overtly horror styled scene; this is kinda what I mean in the previous paragraph: will Raimi have that kind of creative wriggle room?




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,723 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I wouldn’t agree Raimi plays everything seriously, there’s a Jameson scene which is an extended riff about Doc Ock’s name (and a Dr Strange wink towards the audience). I think maybe the difference is a lot of the comedy of the films is channelled through that one larger than life character (and a Simmons’ pitch perfect performance), rather than just cheap wisecracks.

    I do agree about Raimi’s chances within the MCU though. Im curious but not necessarily confident. I mean his last film was nearly ten years ago and a bit of a dumpster fire. But he is maybe the only director to truly capture the vibe and look of an old fashioned comic book, so we’ll see what he comes up with.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In fairness I did say "operatic seriousness", in that heightened version of reality that's clearly ludicrous but also played by all totally straight - rather than being in on the joke that it's all bit silly. Jameson was perhaps the closest to that, Simmons playing the character with a likeable àssholery, knowing he's a bit of a Greek Chorus. Maybe it's all rose spectacles mind you, long time since I watched the Raimi films so I could be WAY off here.

    The MCU has never quittttte felt confident enough to drop the winking or faint sense of... maybe not total embarrassment, but apology almost for being stories of characters with silly pseudonyms and whatnot. The best MCU films have owned that silliness, the worst trying to push against it - worse, roll its eyes at the audience. It's like the Gilmore Girls, where everybody's such a bloody smartàrse all the time (though to be fair, that is MJ's entire thing so hey)

    And yes I absolutely name dropped the Gilmore Girls and will not apologise for it lol.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Personally I didn't think of Otto Octavius line as winking at the audience, it is a rather ridiculous name. In the context of the movie I don't think they're going to turn Dock Ock into some Austin Powers villain that everyone takes the piss off. I actually saw a theory on the plot of the movie that sounds really promising, I'll spoiler it in case. Credit to @ellardent on Twitter.

    Spider-Man No Way Home theory: Peter has to recover the ‘doomed to die in defeat’ villains arriving from other universes, but finds Doc Ock sympathetic and ultimately a friend. So he won’t allow Dr Strange to send them to their dooms…leading to utter multiverse madness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,225 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I kinda see the Otto Octavious line as more a twist on Spierman 2, where he was known as Dr. Otto Octavious and became Doctor Octopus, whereas here they know him as Doctor Octopus first and then learn his real name. From their point of view his real name seems more like nominative determinism.

    Either way, as much as you can praise Raimi for the first two Spiderman films, he also did 3. Regardless of studio interference or arguing with Tobey Maguire or whatever else was going on, that's his movie too. And it is god awful.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's an interesting theory, and would track with various points in the comics.

    Doc Ock has sometimes been an ally IIRC, and was even Spider-Man for a time, for reasons that are way too "comic book" contrivance to go into. I believe he's a friend in the recent, well received video game.

    Not like anyone who has ever seen more than 2 films would believe he'll stay in that glass prison for the whole movie either. Without checking, he's not in that line up of villains (which I'll speculate is from the last act). So does join the fight.

    Could anyone have made that film work though? There was just too much going on, too much asked of him and while the "evil Peter" stuff remains toe curling, none of the Venom arc was Raimi's idea. I believe that was studio mandated. I think Vulture was meant to be the fourth film's antagonist, Raimi getting as far as storyboards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭pah


    Tickets out now, got mine for the afternoon of 15th 🙂



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Johnny Ultimate's post above promoted me to revisit the Raimi trilogy (yes all three), which I have been meaning to do for some time having not watched any of them in years. I remember seeing the first shortly after leaving school. It was a strange time in the world and there was something comforting about the film, which was made pre-9/11 though ended being edited to remove the twin towers. I think it holds up well. The second film is definitely the best. In particular I always loved the final shot (a tribute to The Graduate) of MJ, the joy slowing fading from her face as she considers an uncertain future.

    The third film is often maligned for being overstuffed with villains and sub-plots but looking back it really doesn't seem that bad, especially compared the amount of plot Nolan squeezed into the TDK trilogy. It's definitely an uneven film but it's also a darker and more interesting film than the previous two. It delivers on the promise of the final shot of 2 by having Peter and MJ grapple with the consequences of being together as Peter struggles to remain good. The climax is messy but I very much like the bittersweet ambiguity of the ending.

    As compromised as he may have been by commercial factors, Raimi managed make a trilogy of superhero movies that feel like they were personal to him, which was striking enough at the time but even more so now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    What happened? I thought this was supposed to be out on the 30th of November just gone?

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Mephisto confirmed.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,225 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I think a few months ago all the MCU release dates for 2021 were pushed back by about 2 weeks, so that included the dates for Eternals and maybe Shang Chi as well. Release date has been mid-december for a while now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭kerplun k


    I noticed that as well... If you turn the latest theatrical poster upside down and invert the colours, you can clearly see a rabbit, which is obviously Mephisto. 😉



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Well if Sony are only allowing some of the film to be shown to critics, then either the Garfield stuff truly was the worst kept secret in Hollywood - or else what else could it be? Such that the studio would intentionally be this coy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    Spider-Gwen, played by Emma Stone. :pac:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    As I mentioned elsewhere, Spider-verse Gwen is voiced by Hailee Stienfeld who's in the MCU at the moment as Kate Bishop. Never made the connection until today. New clips came out for the follow up movies, released this morning.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's not the craziest shout. It would certainly be a proper surprise worth keeping, as opposed to the Maguire/Garfield back and forth that had been going on



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Spider-Man 2099 is also voiced by Oscar Isaac who is also Moonknight.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,723 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I’d always be immediately suspicious of films that are apparently so full of ‘surprises’ that you have to hide them from critics. Just suggests to me (rightly or wrongly) that the film doesn’t have much going for it beyond said ‘surprises’ - surprises that’ll immediately be known after the first public screening anyway.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Apparently, and I've not gone down the rabbit hole because who has time? Marvel and Sony have been at odds about how much of the film's cameos to spoil in promotions. The biggest being the supposed appearances or Messrs Spiderman past.

    Man, if these rumours don't turn out to be true, I and others will look like some clatter of fools.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭flazio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,102 ✭✭✭EoinMcLovin


    Opening scene which is directly after the ending from Far From Home




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    There's a spoiler for Eternals in his follow up tweet purely because he's quote tweeting a film critic who spoilt a cameo in that film.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,102 ✭✭✭EoinMcLovin


    Thanks for the warning. I'm just going to avoid social media and YouTube until I see the film on Friday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,886 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Now is the time I'm cursing myself why I added so many subs on my Youtube account



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,951 ✭✭✭✭2smiggy


    Reviews seem to be solid enough.


    doesn't really make any difference to me. I really enjoyed the last two Tom Holland ones, so would be going to see it either way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,107 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    If superhero movies were like this I'd totally watch them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭biggebruv


    Might catch a morning show tomorrow since I’m off work I hope it’s quiet and all the little brats should be in school lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    This has the potential to be the first billion dollar movie since the pandemic started. Interesting to watch its box office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    I'm not the biggest MCU fan, but I am seeing a lot of Spiderman NWH leaks on the frontpage of YouTube. Actual footage from a screener and even the thumbnail is a spoiler, so if you don't want spoilers stay off YouTube/Social Media for the next few days.

    I'm actually shocked that these leaked videos on YouTube are still up and easily accessible. I thought Disney would be all over this...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,886 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Wow **** wow that was something else

    The introduction of the villains esp Doc Ock, Electro and Green Goblin was great. Lizard and Sandman were meh. A little disappointing was only 1 scene where it was the green goblin suit. Willem Defoe was excellent as always.

    It was so hard not to shed tears when the other spider men came into it. Generations meeting face to face.

    The film flew by and it was a great story, the multiverse thing is very confusing and I can only imagine how complicated the new doctor strange could be.

    Aunt may dying was unexpected and there's a little jump when you think Tobey Mcguires Spiderman was going to be killed off

    Overall great movie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Seeing this tonight, been off social media all day.. very excited!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    A fun love letter to my favorite superhero and a nice page in the new chapter of the MCU, but into the spider verse did it all better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Deleted. Why don't spoiler tags work anymore?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭tvnutz


    Wow, unbelievable movie! Totally lives up to the hype!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    No Spoilers below.

    That was great. It delivered. There’s so much packed in and the best part is that the villains are used in a really clever way and doesn’t just reduce them to one dimensional bad guys.

    So happy i seen it as early as possible because the internet is riddled with spoilers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    I enjoyed it, some things in particular more than others. Goblin and someone else were a highlight of the film for me.

    Strange though was ooof. I was worried about his characterisation based on the trailers and it came to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,866 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    So.......


    Jamie foxx's comment obviously introduces the idea of miles Morales in the MCU, but is it possible we get the 3 amigos animated in across the spiderverse? Spidergwen meeting Garfield, Miles and Holland Parker as teenagers, sets up Holland 4 or young avengers......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Enjoyable movie, one of the better marvel ones.


    <spoiler> test </spoiler>


    meh stupid boards no spoilers from me :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭SK1979


    Yep really really enjoyed this. Saw it tonight in the big screen in santry. There was a full showing and it was a good experience watching it with so many.

    Holland is very good in it I thought.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,723 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    If you want to use spoilers:

    On desktop: select the text you want to spoiler, click the little flag button to the left hand side of the comment box. Select the quotation marks option and then the spoiler button within that.

    On mobile: select the text you want to spoiler, click the little flag option in the bottom left of the reply box, and then same as above with the quotation mark / spoiler button

    Like so!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Garfield was a highlight for me. I think Sony are hacks but if they can bring him back I'm all for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,886 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Really enjoyed it and it’s definitely one for the fans.

    Gives closure to Peter Parker and opens the door for Myles Morales to join the MCU if Peter Parker goes back to Sony.

    Also Daredevil!!




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Wasnt happy they didnt do the meme and was that the smallest cameo ever for Hank Pym in the cafe at the end?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭Niska


    Well that was great. I'll see it again on Saturday and see how I feel about it then.

    There's a mid credit scene

    Eddie (Tom Hardy not Topher grace) and Venom

    and a Post Credit one too

    Teaser for next Dr Strange movie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭GSPfan


    With the movie now released can we get rid of the spoiler tags?


    The smart move here would be to get Andrew Garfield back for a third movie and have Venom somehow show up due to some multiverse shenanigans. That way Sony get their Spiderman back and they can give Marvel the Tom Holland version.


    Into The Spiderverse proved that people totally understand the multiverse logic so having two Spidermen existing in different universes is now not a problem.


    I think audiences will want Garfield back after what we seen in No Way Home. I think he deserves it as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,576 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    But is now in this universe? at least the symbiote is. Doesn't need to be any multiverse stuff anymore




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,723 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Credit where credit is due: this is probably the most enjoyable and substantial of the Spider-Man MCU films. And extra credit where extra credit is due: after the miserable fan service ouroboros that was Ghostbusters Afterlife, this handles its callbacks better. I mean, it’s still a fan service ouroboros, but at least it’s not miserable. A plot is built around all these familiar faces, and almost all of them have multiple scenes and at least something to do (even if it’s clear the actors behind two particular returning, CG-heavy villains probably had about 2 hours total on an actual set / recording booth). Holland and Zendaya are too old to pass for high schoolers at this stage, but they do have actual chemistry which helps sets the stakes here.

    The problem with it is the same as most MCU films: direction. Not plot direction - the actual nuts and bolts filmmaking. It’s perhaps even more pronounced here that we’re calling back to the Raimi Spider-Man films. While I still much prefer that particular take on Spidey than the wise-cracking high schooler here, it was ultimately Raimi’s vibrant direction that made those films the best live action Marvel films to date. Watts, alas, is no Raimi. While there’s more emotional and character heft here than the previous two films, it’s all blandly directed with no particular spark. The action is flat, the staging insipid, and the whole thing cloaked in ugly CG to the point where I often wondered how many of the actors were even in the same place. Even at the end, there was nice little visual moments to cut to black on, but even those were followed by more redundant epilogues. There’s just no oomph to the filmmaking. At least it’s coherent, which is more than I was expecting from a film with so many moving parts and extended universe nonsense.

    Still: at least it delivers what it teased it would. It doesn’t deliver anything more than that really (it’s basically as straightforward a take on a ‘multiverse’ as you could imagine), and certainly nothing to match the joyous aesthetic ingenuity of Into The Spiderverse. But it’s undeniably good to see a lot of these characters and actors back, even relatively briefly. It has the same problems as many MCU films - there’s one ‘witty’ banter scene near the big, boring action climax that goes on for far, far longer than it needs to, and most of the jokes land flat. The constant winking and nodding at the audience frequently gets too much. And yes we’re covering the same thematic and character ground yet again. But as an avalanche of all things Cinematic Spider-Man it does its job, even if it does unavoidably serve as a reminder of how much better these kinds of films could be not so long ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,886 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    How did Norman Osborn ie Green Goblin and Electro come back to Life ? If resurrection is possible in the mutliverse then we could seen the return of Tony Stark/Iron Man etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,091 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    It was explained that they were taken from the point before their Spiderman killed them (or at least what they thought was going to happen). So Electro was taken at the point Gar-Spidey and Gwen overloaded the grid, Lizard was taken maybe just before he cured him? Otto was taken during their battle on the river, Goblin before he was impaled by his own glider, and Sandman before he drifted away after making piece with Spidey Maguire.

    In any case, the reaction in my screen when Garfield and Maguire appeared was absolutely electric. Delighted that they pulled it off and it was a great fan service (the scene where Garfield saved MJ was really sweet.


    A few things I'm confused about re the ending though - so everyone has forgotten Peter Parker, but not Spiderman. So does that mean Spiderman was still with the Avengers during Infinity War/End Game etc - but they just have no idea who he was?


    Will Dr Strange remember casting the spell and why he cast it - or is that going to be part of his confusion going into MVOM?

    And why did Electro get a makeover? Was is it the different power he was absorbing?





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