Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358563#Comment_118358563

The trailer that broke world record didn't even have Goblin in it, the hook was Doc Ock saying 'Hello Peter...' at the end.

People rolled their eyes at Osborn and Goblin being shoved into Amazing Spiderman series - it was one of the biggest downfalls trying to go to that well again. MCU have given Spiderman a new life by taking a different angle

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358615#Comment_118358615

I'd find it odd your chalking one modern storyline to, which is even arguable, to hold more weight than decades of destruction from one character, amusing.

Not one villain has caused Spiderman, or any hero, more trouble or heartache as the Green Goblin

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358465#Comment_118358465

I think the Happy bit can be explained - he was introduced to Aunt May through Spider-man, she didn't know he was Spider-man when they first met. If you take out the Peter element he could still remember the Spider-man specific moments and he builds out an explanation around it. Is isn't far fetched based if you look at what humans do without magic involved.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358540#Comment_118358540

I think you're right, I'm probably either going to have to accept it find some head canon to explain it. Those kinds of things just annoy me personally though, it's why I don't love Endgame as much as most. The holes re the taking and replacing stones just stand out to me although Loki sort of solved that.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358637#Comment_118358637

The trailer people went back to in huge numbers, to see hidden clues of the talked about Green Goblin appearance. That's where the repeat views came from.

The well you speak of that won't dry anytime soon. Green or Hobgoblins will be the order of the day going forward. The well is plenty deep I'd suspect

I disagree they gave him a new life, they set him up at the end, to take over from where the Tobey Maguire films may have started. Brand new day, brand new Goblin. But that's what the people want

The Golden Miller

I'll be honest, I'm baffled all this is a conversation. Thought it would be like trying to convince people Joker is a rival of Batman, which would be a draw

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358651#Comment_118358651

Again with ridiculous hyperbole.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358731#Comment_118358731

Hyperbole? The Green Goblin has ever been the only one to hit Spiderman where it really hurt. Even in the new film, they made a point of it. The new MCU Spidey, Green Goblin did him too

Penn

Green Goblin is generally accepted as being Spider-Man's arch-nemesis; his Joker, his Luthor, his Red Skull... etc. He is the primary enemy where the stories get the most personal, where he pushes Spider-Man to his absolute limits and is able to damage him beyond what most other enemies can do.

It's why he was villain they went for in the very first Spider-Man film.

Shred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358242#Comment_118358242

That's exactly what I expected initially when Ned walked past Parker!

I enjoyed the movie, while I had been looking forward to seeing it, my expectations were raised somewhat following the Empire podcast going batshít about it on last week's podcast*; in fairness some of that was about the experience of seeing it, the audience I saw it with were fairly muted which does impact things. I see others on this thread talking about 'their' audience reaction to some of the key character reveals which made me wish I'd seen it with that type of audience tbh 😕

*

https://play.acast.com/s/theempirefilmpodcast/7342f0ff16560fa388e1aefa001f53c0

IRE60

Yea - brought the 11yr boss, who loved it - the De La Soul 'Three is a Magic number' was clever in the credits (think a small group in the cinema actually knew the lyrics!) - poster above hit the nail on the head - Happy and Peter at the grave did/didn't make sense! Good film - few scenes dragged out - overall a decent watch

Liam O

I would say there would have been interest in the Green Goblin appearing as that basically confirmed Tobey Maguire as appearing which was a far bigger purveyor of interest.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359033#Comment_118359033

Of course. When Marvel was going bankrupt, Spiderman carried the company on his back, Green Goblin being the arch nemises.

People are quick to forget with the MCU universe, Thanos and Loki etc were b villains in contrast.

Marvel even stated during the 90s they were going to stop using Venom, Green Goblin and Doc Ock, as they felt their long term popularity would suffer due to over exposure.

The Venom film showed people don't forget so quickly, and when the Green Goblin was announced for this film, interest went through the roof.

Most of Marvel's other characters are hugely popular, or become big, off the back off the MCU. They need it to live off.

Venom, Spiderman, Doc Ock, X-Men and Hulk transcend that, they are huge draws as stand alone characters. And the Green Goblin takes it to the next level.

This film centered around the Green Goblin, his return and immediate impact and hurt he caused to this versions Spiderman. It was also a gauge as to whether they would run with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in a new trilogy, this MCUs version of the Green Goblin/a Goblin.

He's Marvel's flagship villain, and as I said, were prepared to convulute things to bring him back into play. Break it down, that's the purpose this film served.

This film is doing numbers no other Spiderman film did, in covid times, due to Green Goblins return. That's the bottom line really.

People are quick to forget, until the Nolan trilogy and solo film, Green Goblin was a bigger household name than the Joker

The White Wolf

I can accept GG is Parker's Joker and is a pull for general audiences, but I have to baulk at the idea that GG was a bigger household name than Joker pre Nolan.

Putting the comics to one side, in live media alone Joker was a big part of pop culture with the 60s series and then the 89 film. The only other comic book villain, up until the boom that started with Raimi and Singer films, the general audience would have been familiar with to a major extent would have been Lex Luthor.

I love GG so I'm not disrespecting the character and would take an Osborn Disney Plus series all day long, but he just hasn't had the mainstream exposure Joker has had, even before Nolan.

Then again I could be wrong and a Joker type Green Groblin film could be an absolute smash. I'd happily see that happen.

Agent Coulson

It is expected to break the billion dollar box office mark tomorrow becoming the second fastest film to break the billion mark.

brianregan09

As a long term marvel fan since the late 80s/early 90s

Green Goblin is a big name undoubtedly but nowhere near Hulk , X-men, Fantastic Four not even in the same stratosphere

in the early 90's pre comic book movies outside of the early batman ones , the biggest names were X-Men Spiderman and Fantastic Four and Hulk and by proxy the biggest names from those properties (villain wise) was Magneto , Doctor Doom , Galactus and the Silver Surfer and Venom , Goblin was the next rung down , yes in the comics he was revered for killing Gwen Stacey but he didn't pass over into the main stream fully until the Raimi Movies

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371536#Comment_118371536

At last someone else talking sense!

Optimalprimerib

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345126#Comment_118345126

But this was just a homage to the evil dead. It was not exactly original in itself.

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371536#Comment_118371536

That is true admittedly, as a kid in the 90s all media seemed to be Marvel mostly bar Batman for DC. I knew who the X-Men, Spiderman, Doom, Captain America etc were before I came to know the rest of the DC catalogue.

flazio

Not a comic reader but certainly a Saturday morning cartoon watcher in the 90s so Spider-man, X-Men and Batman were my exposures to those characters, also a bit of the Bixby/Ferringo Hulk show.

Homelander

Not really sure why someone is putting so much energy into trying to convince everyone that Green Goblin is some sort of explosive household name in the comic-book adapation world when he absolutely is not.

Or that Green Goblin somehow was the driving force behind No Way Home being successful.

If anything the wider audience know him solely FROM the original Raimi film, but there are countless other heroes and villians that had, and have, far more household recognition even long before comic-book movies took hold.

No Way Home - I thought was pretty decent. It didn't wow me, though I thought the trio of Spider-men was pretty faultless. The script certainly could've been much better and as someone else alluded to above it was very formulaic and really lacking in creative panache.

Honestly, above all else, while Tom Holland is a good Peter Parker, this movie reminded me of just how great Raimi's first two movies are. Equally, while Andrew Garfield is perfectly fine, those two Amazing Spiderman movies are far less so.

Fred Astaire

This was a real mixed bag for me.

I was expecting Nostalgia Bait the movie and to a large extent it was. However some of that actually landed for me. Once Tobey and Andrew showed up I enjoyed most of what followed - even if the final battle was at times an indecipherable, CG mess. The scene where Andrew saved MJ was brilliant, one of the few scenes in the MCU where they allowed you to feel the emotion and not undercut it with some lame quip. He was honestly the best thing about this - the glimpses into a Spiderman destroyed from grief, the support from the others and the possibility of a happier future for him. I felt like it gave the character some closure at least.

But getting there was a whole other kettle of fish and there were so many plot holes/contrivances and moments where disbelief had to be completely suspended.

In the last movie Peter is directly responsible for giving Mysterio so much power which made his actions here all the more unbelievable/idiotic/annoying/stupid.

The spell and it's execution was so frustrating. How Strange doesn't explain the parameters of the spell, how Peter keeps interrupting him despite Strange saying not to - how the entire movie hinges on this utter stupidity really frustrated me. I think Dr Strange and Peter are stupid beyond their characters in this movie just to make the plot happen.

I cannot believe that Peter decides to let 5 supervillains/serial killers out of their cages in some random effort to 'save' them. Despite the warnings from Dr.Strange where he stresses how quickly they need to be sent back because they don't know anything about the multiverse and the danger they could be in. For Aunt May to be pushing Peter toward this effort to save them was really stupid to me too. So they bring 5 these supervillains to a huge apartment building - away from their cages towards the population. These supervillains they have known for minutes in some cases. They even leave one of them outside in a lorry when he could easily escape and go on a rampage while the others are upstairs. For them to do this just snapped my immersion in two then and there. This random villain rehabilitation programme with absolutely no failsafes if something went wrong which was incredibly fcuking likely. Honestly it had me feeling like Aunt May deserved to die and Peter deserved to lose her as a lesson for this absolutely ridiculous/dangerous thing they did.

I don't understand the place of Uncle Ben in this universe as Peter almost acted as if he didn't exist - when in Civil War he hinted at his death in his own power/responsibility speech to Tony. Honestly we have seen this power/responsibility thing play out in 3 movies now and him say it without saying it - and Peter acted like May had said the most profound thing ever when he has been saying it for ages himself.

The implications of the villains being saved and not dying in their own universes require an almost infinite number of alternate timelines. Goblin being saved alone would make Tobeys trilogy end with the first movie.

Overall I enjoyed most of what happened after Andrew and Tobey appeared but the terrible writing to get there really dragged this down for me.

orecir

7 out of 10 for me and no more or no less.

A decent nostalgia trip down memory lane.

Far from home the best of the trilogy.

Zero-Cool

Loved it, absolutely loved it! They should have made Toby number 1, Andrew 2 and Tom 3 (could have made reference to their ages but would have been a nice touch). The chemistry between the 3 was just class and the villains nailed it as well. I thought having GG as the big bad was a great touch purely for Willem's performance. So many great lines and scenes. "I'm something of a scientist myself" line had me "BAH!" out loud. I'm not one for reactions but the silence in the cinema other than me made me feel real old.

Yeah, lots questions and questionable actions but I haven't moved a Spidey film since Spiderman 2 in 2004.

Also, perfect ending for me. Before going to see it, i was hoping for a a clean slate with no MCU characters. Wow, can't get more clean slate than that! And that new suit *chefs kiss*. Now i really want to watch it again but also go back to the first 2 Toby films.....maaaaybe the amazing Spider-Man 1.

NIMAN

Good film but what is Hollywoods obsession with long films?

Nearly every film I have watched of late could be made better with some decent editing.

JP Liz V1

I missed Tony's banter and relationship with Peter, Doc Strange didn't cut it for me, loved the 3 Peters and more Happy was needed

I thought DS might change the pasts so for May, Ben and Gwen to live

gmisk

Saw it today and liked it, but to be entirely honest didn't love it, it dealt with a stuffed cast rather well. But the plot felt a bit basic and predictable. Basically it was no into the spiderverse. I do also agree with other posters it felt a tad long.

Spoiler Warning

All three "Spidermen" were really good in it, I do think Garfield was a tad underserved with the material in his films. I didnt think Jon Favreau was great oddly and I liked him in any other MCU film he has popped up in, he looked a tad bored. I kind of was expecting some big revelatory cameo but no real shocks, daredevil was kind of flagged up.

Nice to see Dani Rojas pop up in the post credit scene!

OU812

Enjoyed it, but I think they should have brought back MJ (1) & Gwen in some way.

Also, anyone know if they did the spidermen pointing meme?

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398589#Comment_118398589

They didn't do the meme exactly but there was a moment when they were pointing at each other on the lab when Ned called Peter and they were asking which one he meant. I think there was a similar moment on the Statue of Liberty when they were discussing who was SM1 etc

Potential-Monke

Been a few days since I've seen it, but I came out thinking that was just a couple of hours of pure fun and joy. The nostalgia, the meme, the interactions between the 3 in general being the stand out moments. Personally, I'm not a fan of the bad guy turning good, but I think they did it well in this. I can't remember it all, but I know repeat viewings will show more.

But it does reinforce my attempt to not watch/read anything to do with films I'm interested in. How mind blowing would it have been to get the Spidey reveals without basically everyone knowing it beforehand. I don't think there was a single (notable) character in it I wasn't previously aware of and I had limited my access to information greatly. Just a lot couldn't be avoided. Hate this modern trend of having to know everything before the film is out.

Oh, and thank to the trailers, I don't need to go see Uncharted. They showed the whole film, massive end battle scene and all. Just missing some story bits. Wasn't mad interested in it to begin with anyway. Thankfully, the after credit scene didn't appear to ruin too much.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398737#Comment_118398737

Garfield's "Peter3!" bit was well done, pity he didn't get better material to work with (and be at least half a decade younger).

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405970#Comment_118405970

I like Garfield more in this than I did in either of his solo films where I thought his Spider-Man/Parker was a bit of a dick tbh.

FortuneChip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118398387#Comment_118398387

But Dani Rojas is meant to the Sandman, not Venom 😉

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406020#Comment_118406020

I thought Garfield and Stone were the highlight of two not greatly conceived films.

I'd still maintain that his final scene in TASM2 just encapsulates Spiderman perfectly. Just a shame he didn't have the creative behind him to bring it home.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406091#Comment_118406091

There's no denying their chemistry was fantastic but the writing around them is awful at times. I've only seen ASM2 once and don't intend to revisit but I never found his Parker likeable.

steve_r

After watching Garfield in this I have been tempted to go back to his films - has anyone done it? The second in particular was an awful mess.

Havent watched either of them (or Spider-Man 3) since seeing them in the cinema

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406981#Comment_118406981

I watched ASM before No Way Home, couldn't bring myself to watch the sequel. I watched the first 2 Maguire films but I've been burned too many times by SM3, I've rewatched it twice on the past and each time I went in thinking "it can't be as bad as I remember".

Penn

Both of TASM films had good ideas that they just brought 2-3 steps too far.

Peter's father being involved in Oscorp's genetics and being killed for it? Also has secret underground lab in train station accessed by special coins, and is assassinated in private plane crash.

Max Dillon feels ignored and becomes jealous of the attention Spider-Man gets? Also carries around a birthday card for himself and talks to himself in the mirror.

Norman Osborn has genetic illness which could affect Harry? Instantly starts to affect Harry and has secret files that Harry finds by accident.

So many other things that were just needlessly taken too far.

Garfield and Stone were by far the highlights of both films, and I'm glad Garfield got a chance in this one to show how good he still can be in the role. His character was a bit of a prick at times in his films but I never thought he went too far with it, as he still had a lot of heart. Scenes like where he stops a kid from being bullied, fixes his science project and starts walking with him and asking him about it were great.

Zero-Cool

I always thought Andrew was a **** Peter and Spidey but no way home prices he's actually really good at both and actually shows up Tom's Peter/Spidey. Just goes to show the ASM films were just in bad hands and I love how Andrew for some badly needed redemption from this. Can't wait for this to come out on digital just to watch all the bits with Tobey and Andrew again. Saying that, I'm really excited for the next Tom films. Hopefully no more bumbling Sir to everyone.

johnny_ultimate

Amazing Spider-Man was such an insipid film I never even bothered with the second.

Spider-Man 3 is such a mess I don’t think I’d defend it. There’s just enough of the Raimi good stuff in there to wrap up some stuff, like the MJ and Peter relationship arc. I also enjoy the infamous goofy scenes, even if they don’t land as well as similar scenes did in the previous two films. But it’s clearly a mess of a film - even visually it’s morbidly fascinating to see how Hollywood went all-in on CG in the mid-00s and made the action and spectacle infinitely more weightless and unconvincing. There’s a world of difference between the small-scale action finales of Spider Man 1 + 2 and the CG excess of 3. And there’s simply too much going on, with the various subplots sucking up time from each other in quite a frustrating way.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407340#Comment_118407340

I'd completely forgotten about his dad's secret layer, completely undermines the fact that Spider-Man is meant to be an ordinary kid and it could have happened to anyone.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407513#Comment_118407513

Yeah. In those films, it was Parker DNA that was spliced with the spiders, meaning it'd only work on someone with Parker DNA. That's why it ends up making Harry into the Green Goblin rather than healing him.

Like I said, they had some okay ideas, but took them all way too far.

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407513#Comment_118407513

Could of been much worse if you saw the deleted ending. :D

I watched both TASMs before NWH and I can't remember many dick moments from Garfield's Peter. His messing around of Gwen at the start of TASM2 is the worst I can recall. Letting that intern get shafted in TASM1 as well. Both are results of awful writing of Peter.

His portrayal of Spiderman on the other hand was consistently great. His empathy for Dillon and the kid at the end of TASM2 being the best examples.

They fucked up Peter in those films through no fault of Garfield.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407586#Comment_118407586

The scene in the first one where he apprehends the car thief springs to mind, I know Spider-Man is meant to be quippy but he was just being plain mean imo and taunting the thief way beyond what was necessary. It felt especially sour after Uncle Ben had already given him the speech after the Flash incident. I'm not going to comment on ASM2 but even at the end of ASM when he decides to break his promise to Gwen's dad so easily but maybe that's addressed in the messing Gwen around you referred to. Anyway it's just a personal opinion, as I said I enjoyed him in NWH.

Agent Coulson

It is now the 12th biggest grossing movie of all time and the biggest non Avenger movie of the MCU and should pass Ultron by the end of next week as it is only $38m shy of it today.

The biggest Sony movie ever as well so no way they will want to lose this kind of box office.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407654#Comment_118407654

I've seen ASM precisely one time so my memory could be shot to hell ... but that film was one of the few blockbusters where you could really feel the committee or executive notes leaping off the screen. As you say, I found that Spidey a bit of a díck, not charming or relatable - but the film struggled to merge said happy go lucky mentality with the obvious Angsty Family Drama the aborted series tried to fashion out of Peter's past. The studio wanted Parker to be cool and nerdy at the same, neither coming out fully baked. That was the least of the film's problems mind you, and to be fair Garfield and Stone had a nice chemistry, but the film was cynical garbage, ultimately.

santana75

I only watched The amazing spiderman and the amazing spiderman 2 over the Christmas break and I have to say I really enjoyed both movies. The 2nd one seems to have been overloaded with characters and various plot threads that didn't get resolved but I thought Andrew Garfield did a great job and the chemistry between him and Emma Stone was legit. I think Garfield is the best spiderman and he really pulled it out of the bag in no way home. I'd love to see him get one more movie for himself, I reckon Sony would not be adverse to milking that cow one more time.

TheIrishGrover

Meant to post this previously. I really enjoyed that. I'm not going to poke holes at the inconsistencies/problems with the world forgetting him. Just go with it or not. A wizard did bring a lizard guy and electric guy from another world so I'll live with the vagueness of the world forgetting about Peter Parker.

But yeah, I enjoyed that very much and you can see that all involved did too. Garfield was the highlight, for me. Like most, I thought his Spiderman movies were the weakest (I don't think I saw his second one in one sitting even, I was that un-bothered). But obviously the makers of this knew the general opinion. Knew that he got the sh*tty end of that stick. I could happily have watched the three of them chat about their lives for another 30 mins. ("You were in the Avengers? Are they a band? You were in a BAND???!!!).

I enjoyed the fact that the guys weren't simply cameos. (And I loved the small reference to Miles Morales). Don't know did Hayden Church do the Mo-Cap for Sandman or was it someone else. It seemed that they may have almost used unused footage for him (not as sandman) and Rhys Evans (Again, human). Which, I suppose, is fair enough. It really was about Spider-men versus the other three.

Oh and that Charlie Cox cameo!!!! There was actually a huge gasp and cheer in the audience. I mean we all assumed that Garfield was going to be in it. But I think everyone just thought they were reaching too far for Charlie Cox cameo. The last time I heard a cheer in an Irish audience was the end of Endgame. And can't remember before that.

So REALLY enjoyed that. Thought it was a great cap to a fun trilogy. I know they are planning more but..... if they said no more, then I'd be happy with that. But don't tell me they didn't rip off Spider-verse end credits :) Nor roll on Spiderverse 2 & 3!!!

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118371536#Comment_118371536

Not to bring the Goblin thing back up, but only seen this now. To claim he's a rung down from Silver Surfer, Doctor Doom etc is simply untrue. Magneto the only other villain with his standing, Venom too.

Hes the central villain to Marvel's biggest hero. Whether as the Goblin, Osborn or even Oscorp, their dynasty has gone from being Spidermans main villain to being consistently the main Marvel villain to all the hero's in some form or another. Very few major cross over events without him being a player or the puppet master.

3 reboots of Spiderman films, and it always comes back to the Green Goblin one way or another, his son or company. How anyone can claim otherwise I don't know. No villain has hurt any major hero to the extent the Green Goblin has Spiderman over the years, and consistently so. Even had kids with Gwen. Unquestionably Marvel's flagship villain, the counter point to their flagship hero

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407542#Comment_118407542

Can't really remember the ins and outs of that film but was it not a hereditary disease Harry got passed, that came and went, until it finally killed him anyway?