Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349791#Comment_118349791

I think maybe you are not aware of the appeal of Spiderman himself.

the character and imagery are insanely popular - just look at the merchandising.

Marvel wanted to use SpiderMan for Spider-Man first, then the villains.

Spiderman has been in the MCU for years with no mention of Norman, Oscorp, or Goblin and they could have used him from the start. not only did they not use him, they’ve established that he doesn’t exist “here”.

they could have introduced Doc Ock, Lizard, etc. with a host of new actors at any time - no-one would have been screaming her heresy.

I think this film was a “convoluted way” to tell this story with these particular actors.

and what exactly is convoluted about the story? None of it is difficult to understand.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349143#Comment_118349143

Just in case it wasn't clear why Sony wouldn't countenance parting with that license; that's an insane chunk of cheddar. But Spiderman is up there with batman as the iconic Marvel character, it's no great surprise either.

santana75

$253 million domestic opening weekend............thats insane.

circadian

Really enjoyed it, loads of fan service for sure but a few easter eggs hidden in there too. When Strange was trying to stop the collapse of the multiverse you could see silhouettes coming through and I'm pretty sure Scorpion and Rhino were there.

As for the Venom snippet, does that mean there's a symbiote left in this universe? Are they going to do an MCU Venom? Maybe, especially with Daredevil showing up and Kingpin in use as well. I'd be worried that the MCU would do a worse job of something like Venom, it has to be violent and dark and I'm struggling to see how Marvel Studios would push that far. When Logan came out it was much closer to what you'd expect a Wolverine film to be like instead of the PG-12 stuff.

Another point is, since Venom has all the knowledge of the hive mind across multiple universes, does this open a story arc of Venom chasing down the Stones back in their own universe?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349990#Comment_118349990

Yeah, it is similarly why I don't see Sony cutting off their nose to spite their face by trying to grab Spider-man back from the working relationship they have with Marvel. Sony are making an absolute fortune from the arrangement, even before taking into account the other movies they're able to push.

Absolutely loved the movie and the reset it has given the character. I enjoyed seeing the kid dealing with Stark tech and aliens but it wasn't sustainable given the direction of the movies are taking and bringing him back to the neighbourhood without the Avengers is a great move and sets up a whole variety of potential directions for him to go and fun characters to interact with.

I saw a few earlier posts questioning the action scenes - I don't know enough about technical directing or camerawork but I found the final fight with the Green Goblin on the shield incredibly raw and more impactful than the previous Sony Spider-man efforts.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351193#Comment_118351193

Explains why there hasn't been much from the 'Marvel Fatigue' believers since the release...

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349988#Comment_118349988

An interesting comment I picked up on was from Norman when he said he woke up in a weird new world where his Oscorp didn't exist, even though I'm sure Oscorp was shown in one of these films.

Anyway I don't think they're going to go back to Norman anytime soon, I think the symbiote, Kingpin and more street level villains are going to be the focus of Holland's remaining films. Maybe even Ned as Hobgoblin will be the goblin of the arc.

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349990#Comment_118349990

I would argue that for a time, particularly around the time of Garfields original run, Iron Man became the Marvel Poster Boy. If Spider-man is the Batman then Iron Man must be the Superman.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353535#Comment_118353535

Batman is DC’s big name - he is massively popular. Movies are rebooted, many animated series, the merchandise, etc …

Spiderman is that for Marvel.

Superman and Iron Man will never come close to the amount of cash Bats and Spidey bring in

rtron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349596#Comment_118349596

Probably because I'm old. 😁. I said to my youngest the same thing. He said "if that didn't happen the movie wouldn't happen."

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353421#Comment_118353421

while it is possible that they could introduce new MCU Goblin, Doc Ock, etc. for Holland I think there is little point - No Way Home gave these characters a great story and Spidey had plenty more villains

I also hope Spidey’s future is saving people and the city rather than the whole world. He has saved the world - now back to crime fighting.

Feige and Pascal have already been discussing the future of the character and Holland has said he doesn’t want to still be playing Parker in his 30’s and that he would like to see Miles Morales take over.

I would like to see Holland do another trilogy at least (some crossovers would be good) and Morales could be introduced in the final film. I had been hoping for a SpiderMan/Hulk team up

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353728#Comment_118353728

The child has wisdom

:)

pjohnson

The only character that would challenge Spidey in popularity would be Wolverine.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353784#Comment_118353784

For crossovers I don't think it is coincidence that they are developing a sizeable stable of heroes right around the age of Parker, a few who could be potential love interests.

They now also have Daredevil and then add the Fantastic 4 will be based in NYC for when Parker is done with fighting street level bad guys and there is a big crossover event - I'm sure there'll be an open internship when the big bad is about to arrive.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353863#Comment_118353863

Not even close.

I would say Wolverine is the second most popular but he is no “challenge” - no even a speck on Spider-Man’s popularity, the money he makes, etc.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353910#Comment_118353910

I thought maybe they gave Spiderman this reset so that he isn’t a leading Avenger when the time comes for Sony and Disney to part company. Although hopefully they both realise that it is better to share.

Who are the upcoming young heroes? I know Ironheart is going to be around Parker’s age but didn’t know of others.

I hope we get Squirrel Girl soon.

A big crossover event that isn’t Avengers would be good - like you describe the heroes in New York teaming up.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355926#Comment_118355926

Really don't think the audience will buy into Holland's Spider-man as much if he is in the MCU and somehow never crosses paths with other characters or issues faced within that universe (sure Spider-man is a huge draw but him interacting with IM/Strange/Fury gave it a completely different feel than the previous ones). What they did leaves that option but if they wanted a hard cut they would have needed to pull him into another universe, like Venom's.

Will throw the young characters in spoilers in case anyone hasn't been watching shows or knows what is due out (not going into the comic book side of things):

Spoiler Warning

Ironheart as you mention, then:

- Kate Bishop is likely taking over the Hawkeye role and is around Parker's age and based in NYC,

- Yelena is late 20s per BW but can easily be pivoted to fit in with a younger group (as can be seen with her relationship building with Kate also in NYC),

- Ms Marvel is a bit younger but has a show arriving in 2022 set just across the river from NYC in Jersey City,

- further afield we have Shuri who might be taking over the Black Panther role,

- Cassie Lang is about that age and they recast her to a better known actress so they likely have a plan for her beyond being in the background

- Eli Bradley was introduced in Falcon and Winter soldier

- the outside ones are Wanda's kids, who they left the door open to returning in that post credit scene in WandaVision

Not saying all of the above will come together but there is a lot to work with and many would make sense to cross paths with Parker and plenty of interesting directions they could go with the dynamics.

FunLover18

I enjoyed it but I didn't love it. I'm looking forward to seeing it again knowing what to expect. I watched the first two Raimi films before this and tbh Maguires performance didn't quite click for me. Those Raimi films are pure comic book and I don't think there's anything in this action wise that comes close to the train fight in 2. Spider-Man with two arms was better against Dock Ock than Holland's SM with his mechanical arms. I think like most of these films it struggles to give every character their due, Sandman and Lizard are particular victims with their motivations being especially vague. I'm looking forward to seeing a downgraded Spider-Man in future MCU films.

I do have questions about the final spell; how does Happy know Aunt May through Spider-Man if no one remembers Peter. How come he remembers that connection but MJ and Ned are acting like strangers despite going to the same school.

Also my biggest issue is that surely "curing" all the villains completely changes the timelines of the other universes.

pjohnson

I forgot to say Otto reuniting with Tobey was a brilliant scene. That Otto/Tobey relationship was my favourite character relationship in all the Spider-Movies from all the 3 timelines.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118349988#Comment_118349988

I am aware of Spidermans appeal, collect, and still do his comics from forbidden planet. He's the everyman, the character, everyone can relate to. Probably fictions most popular character ever, consistently throughout the decades.

But you make too many film's, people want a return. What propels Spiderman from popularity to histeria, is his arch nemesis and the showdown with, the Green Goblin.

The Goblin was in the MCU for 5 minutes, and did more damage than any villain in the MCU thus far. Killed a relevant player from the off. The film was built around his come back. Spiderman can exist without the Green Goblin, but who isn't intrigued, or wants more showdowns, with his greatest nemises. It's the difference between popularity and histeria like we're seeing.

The film garnered interest before the Green Goblins announcement, went mad there after. Like the Joker in DC, people want the Green Goblin, and Marvel bent over backwards to make it happen.

The current film was all about a showdown with the Green Goblin, nothing more, nothing less

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358068#Comment_118358068

MJ and Ned weren't acting like strangers in the final scene, they were clearly just hanging out. They discussed getting into MIT and stuff.

I think the spell generally keeps everyone the same in terms of their relationships, but once it removes knowledge of Peter it just sort of fills in the gaps.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355926#Comment_118355926

Spiderman will be a leading character in the MCU, just not of the Avengers. The MCU Avengers is dead and purposefully so.

People mock me about my theory of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin. Heard it mentioned years ago, by people who claimed to be in the know, that he was the next big showdown, for the Avengers remnants, could be nonsense.

You do Thanos, you can't go any "bigger". It has to be inworld. Osborn controls media, business and public perception, set up dark avengers in comics. Most, if not all, Marvel comic showdowns in the last few decades, had Norman Osborn as the puppet master behind it, Marvel wide, not just Spiderman universe. No villain in the Marvel world has come close to him. Osborn is the face of Marvel's villain library, always has been.

This Spiderman film had as much to do with gauging popularity for a MCU version of the Osbourns going forward, Spidermans next "trilogy", as it did Spiderman. And people came in huge numbers. At the end of the day, people want to see Spiderman facing off against the Green Goblin, period! Comics biggest showdown, always was, always will be!

I like Venom, Doc Ock or whoever. But when it comes to Spiderman, it always comes back to the Green Goblin

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358204#Comment_118358204

Oh interesting, that's not how I read it at all, they barely greeted each other and she said something about how she observed people which I thought was odd. I'm going to watch the movie again anyway so I'll pay closer attention to that scene.

johnny_ultimate

I initially even thought the film was implying a romantic relationship between MJ and Ned at first, but don’t think that was borne out by the rest of the scene 😅. They definitely knew each other though.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358234#Comment_118358234

I think part of the reason for how understated it felt might just be because they're such good friends. Ned was just hanging out with her while she worked. That's how I picked it up anyway but I could be wrong too.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358234#Comment_118358234

They didn't recognise each other. Its concept was taken from the "Brand New Day" storyline from the Amazing Spiderman series. It's reset across the board, based on Peters interaction's

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357214#Comment_118357214

Florence Pugh is only 25 and as far as I recall Yalena is the same if not younger.

No Way Home takes place the same year as Far from Home but I don’t know where that puts it in regards to the rest of the Phase so Parker and Bishop could be the same age. I forgot about the other young characters.

To be honest I don’t want to see the heroes getting into romances with each other. Dullest thing imaginable. Black Widow and Banner in Age of Ultron was just pointless.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358068#Comment_118358068

The spell didn’t change history or Peter’a role in the MCU, it just made everyone forget him.

All previous events happened, his impact on on relationships happened - he has just been forgotten.

and MJ and Ned were not strangers at the end.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358326#Comment_118358326

They were strangers. All previous events happened had Peter not existed. Read brand new Day

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358225#Comment_118358225

I’m not disputing Goblin’s popularity as a villain and I’m sure he and the other villains added to people wanting to see the film but where are getting the notion that Goblin is a big draw to a cinema audiences?

most of the audience hasn’t a clue about the history of comic books.