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Formula 1 Round 22 Abu Dhabi GP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,820 ✭✭✭weisses


    Without the Mercs taking Max out on several occasions and all the other weird luck they had we would have celebrated a Verstappen world title months ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 Just Some Young Lad


    In a similar way that an advantage was handed to Merc after Copse and even after not forcing Lewis to return the place on lap 1. I agree that the momentum was firmly flipped to be in RBs favor, that doesn't make it illegal. And from the FIAs perspective it is defensible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭klose


    Safety cars are such an element in racing that strategies are built around them and you'll often hear drivers saying the likes of "could do with a safety car" or "hopefully there won't be a safety car". Not the first or last time a race has been dictated by them. Is it fair? You could argue not, but it's for the safety of the Marshalls which is what ultimately matters.



  • Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Some of the back makers were allowed to race, others weren't. Ricciardo pitted for softs under SC in anticipation of a being allowed to race. He came out in P12 on softs with a string of cars on hards in front, no doubt fancied a few divebombs into the points.

    But arbitrarily he was not allowed to unlap himself and "go racing", while 5 cars in front were. Instead he was left between Verstappen and Sainz. He could do nothing with his position, the car in front had scurried 22s into the distance. He immediately started getting blue flags.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    How did you work that out?? Without the half points Max would have been 5 clear of him coming into Abu Dhabi?!?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    The Scousers called it first....

    (also gives a great idea of the intensity of the braking and acceleration in the cars in real time).





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,767 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Had Lewis pitted during the VSC he would have had a far better chance at holding max off.

    Had Checo not put in some phenomenal work slowing Hamilton down he may have had enough time to pit for new tires and maintain track position at the last safety car.

    Mercedes decisions and Red Bulls excellent teamwork were the deciding factors about what happened at the end of the race. Even if you leave the back markers in between them, Max would have enough pace to catch them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 Just Some Young Lad


    I get what you're saying and all I'm saying is - Danny Ric was more than likely not going to gain 22s in a lap. The FIA after the race used the delta to confirm that they allowed the drivers in the "contested" positions to race, or so it seems based on the letter that was released and the Sky punditry interpretation of that letter.

    The only team on the grid lodging a protest is Mercedes. If the decision prevented Ric from contesting a position that they realistically thought was within their reach then we would have seen them protest also. Same goes for Sainz in third. However, that's not the case which leads me to believe that the punditry are correct in their interpretation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    The issue for me right now is the Race Director, he needs to be changed, as does the method of communication with him. I'd suggest a permanent panel of stewards with a RD at the top to make the final decision.

    Who should do it? No idea, I don't follow F1 that intimately any more. Derek Warwick was a steward there yesterday, former F1 driver with 20 years experience in the admin side of it. Maybe him? But I won't make a definite call on it. Either way, Masi isn't suited to the game.

    You need a former racer in there as RD who can understand the drivers side of it. It's one of the reasons why I like Brundle so much as a commentator even though I disagree with him often enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,820 ✭✭✭weisses


    So he used his discretion in two instances ..... He probably used it to avoid a world title decider finishing behind the safety car.. Question was if that was allowed. And it was decided by the stewards it was.

    During the stewards' hearing Masi said "that it had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car)."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    But he wouldn't have been 22s behind if they'd all passed the safety car!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,808 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    No, because the safety car would have come in a lap later. Had everything happened a lap earlier, back markers unlapped and set to race on the last lap having everything been followed - fair enough. but that is not what happened. and the strategy call by Merc (and RB only had to do the opposite) was correct if procedure was followed. There wasn't enough time to follow procedure and get back to racing. Merc could not have know Masi would not follow procedure, hand Max the title and that the FIA wouldn't be arsed about the rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,818 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,834 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    I just have to say, there are a few too many Max fans (or anti-Lewis fans) who seem to think those calling the end a shítshow think Max should be stripped of the title somehow.

    Not at all.

    But it should be made clear that Mercedes did get screwed in this instance. That's ok to say. You can still maintain that Max is a worthy champion, but say the end was a farce.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,998 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    Wait to you hear about Hamilton being a lap down after crashing and being allowed fix the car & unlap himself and and with the faster car going on to finish 2nd in the GP and claim fastest lap

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    Its' amazing how many causal fans are losing there minds over this race and have a misguided opinion on race rules etc... try to frame the result by comparing to another sport like football etc... laughable. Cannot wait to watch Drive to Survive next March ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭rock22


    I think, over this season, it could be argued that Mercedes and Lewis , benefited more from SC's and the ruling of the stewards. Overall I think Verstappen deserved the title so congratulations to him and RB.

    But should the chance of a safety car have such a big influence on the result? Perhaps it is time to look at the rules regarding safety cars again.

    It is often unclear why we get a full safety car or a virtual safety car. Or when a decision is to red flag the race. Could the sport survive with the VSC and red flag only and get rid of the full safety car? IS there a need to change what can or can not be done during a VSC and Red flag? Of course teams build in strategies around the possibilities of a safety car. And RB definitely had a much better, though riskier, strategy yesterday. Mercedes were caught out a bit.

    I am tired of all back and forth with the RD during the race, mostly from Toto and Horner. No team should be allowed contact the RD, except on safety matters concerning their own cars, during the race. Communication should be one way only , RD to the teams. We should not have the nonsense we had in Saudi Arabia of telling Verstappen to allow Hamilton to overtake but not apparently telling Mercedes in time that was going to happen.

    We should get rid of the rotating ex-drivers on the stewards panel for each race and have permanent stewards for the whole season in order to bring some consistency into the process.

    It is a pity, from the sports point of view, that it looks like this might end up in endless court appeals. I doubt if Mercedes HQ are driving this, I suspect it is more from Toto.( Not too sure how much Daimler Benz actually own of the team )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Masi was in an impossible situation. Clearly he didn't want to finish it under a SC as there would've been massive criticism of that the teams agreed that it was highly desirable to finish under green conditions (haven't seen anything contradicting this). He was also aware of the controversy of bringing out the red flag (ironically after Mercedes had a hissy fit about it last week). He wanted to make sure it finished under green conditions and there is enough wiggle room in the regulations to allow him do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    I wanted Max to win and think he deserved to win over the season but the end was a bit of a farce, the decision to just allow the cars between Hamilton & Max unlap themselves was bizarre.

    I really wouldn't envy Masi being in the position to make the call on it knowing there was a massive number of people watching, a lot of them not regular viewers and how poor a look it would be to finish behind the SC. This shouldn't play a part in the decision but of course it does.

    Also I think it needs to be pointed out the tyres on the cars shouldn't play a part in the decision either, makes no difference in a call like this if Max/Hamilton have new or old tyres, thats the responsibility of the teams and should have no bearing when deciding what to do with the SC



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,924 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    It's worth mentioning the non existant defending from Hamilton, particularly at Turn 5 (the third time he was taken with the same move there in the race).

    Did he expect it would be like L1 and he could just drive off the track and gain nearly 2 seconds?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,834 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    The right call was to do what would be done in any other race.

    Clear all the backmarkers if possible, and if they're aren't enough laps to do that, then the race ends under a SC.

    Or if you want to bend the rules, stop the race, let Hamilton pit, then restart for however many laps you decide.

    Half arsing it was the stupidest thing to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,996 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Why did Hamilton take such a wide line into that corner knowing that Verstappen was right behind him? I thought he could have protected the inside line more. Was an overtake around the outside possible at that corner? Most of Verstappen's overtakes are late on the brakes up the inside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Alonso definitely not hiding his absolute delight at the outcome there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    Stewards and RD are different jobs with different types of experience needed.

    The RD is to make sure the event runs properly and safely. The stewards are to review incidents and make decisions on them. It makes sense to have a former driver as part of the steward panel each event. But the pool of stewards for the season is too big and it leads to inconsistencies.

    The race director needs to be someone who is trained and experienced at race directing. There are a number of people who would fit the bill - Scott Elkins (Formula E), Beaux Barfield (IMSA), Eduardo Freitas (WEC, ELMS. Asian LMS - good interview here)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,273 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    No race should ever finish under safety car, it should be a race, that's something that needs to be sorted out for next season.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭Amias


    Based on Russell’s twitter comments Mercedes have moulded him perfectly to slot into their team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,582 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    No idea.

    I actually think we're talking too much about SC's and Masi. I think we need to give huge credit to Verstappen with what was THE lap of his life. He had one real overtaking possibility, (maybe at a stretch two), and he took it. Yes, his car had the better grip but looking at the onboards, Lewis had the faster car on the straight.

    How many of the drivers on the grid yesterday, in Verstappen's car would have done that and succeeded in the one and only lap that they had a chance? Lewis. Kimi or Alonso in their prime, maybe Vettel in his. And that's it. It's an incredible move, if he messes it up he'll never catch Lewis, if he hits Lewis then he'll lose points and Lewis is champion.

    I was surprised that Lewis didn't defend as much, you're right in that he should have expected Verstappen on the inside, but if Lewis was responsible for a collision then Max is champion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    agreed on the tyres point. RBR took a gamble and it paid off. Merc have taken that call before and it paid off, yesterday it went against them swings and roundabouts.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    His behaviour after the crash at Imola should tell you all you need to know about him.



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