Championship showdown this weekend. Will Lewis win his eight title or will Max win his first? All will be revealed on Sunday.
TV Times:
Qualifying Live: 1PM. (Sky Sports)
Race Live: 1PM. (Sky Sports and Channel 4)
Bring! It! On!
Any examples of previous times the race director has allow certain cars to unlap themselves and others not? And any examples of the safety car being called in immediately after the lapped cars pass rather than on the next lap?
Don't get me wrong I was delighted at the time and am delighted Max won and I certainly didn't want to see if end under a SC but it was a decision that looked to be based purely on appealing to the huge numbers watching rather than previously understood procedure imo
Final races like this tend to attract fans and media who are clueless about F1 rules and who shout "Foul" when they don't understand the rules.
Here's the rules explained:
[quote]
The stewards ruled that article 48.12 cited by Mercedes “may not have been applied fully” but in their view “article 48.13 overrides that”, and so Masi’s decision to summon the Safety Car in took precedence.
“Once the message ‘Safety Car in this lap’ has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the Safety Car at the end of that lap,” they added.
The stewards dismissed Mercedes’ request to amend the result of the race to reflect the standings at the end of the penultimate lap, before Verstappen passed Hamilton, stating it would be “effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.”
[/quote]
Verstappen keeps win and championship as stewards reject both Mercedes protests – RaceFans
Masi and RedBull followed the rules.
Mercedes wanted the race to end on lap 57. Its like a soccer team asking for a game to end on 85 minutes when they are a goal up.
I'll let you decide who are trying to bend the rules.
As for Hamilton going off the track on the first lap, he gained about 2 seconds from it. In the previous race, Verstappen was asked to give up first place for something similar, so why wasn't Hamilton asked to give up first place also? Another example of Mercedes choosing the rules selectively. They don't have a leg to stand on. They messed up their pitstops towards the end. Pitstops are crucial in tight F1 races.
Are you for real. It was properly exciting
that wasnt an exciting finish. anything but. anyway wonder what 22 will bring
I wonder has Kallenius told Toto to cop onto himself?
Checo also had DRS, which Hamilton didn’t have.
Its not bizarre. Its perfectly within the rules to allow cars to unlap themselves under a safety car and also within the rules for the race director to bring in the Safety car whenever he wants.
The race director and Red Bull followed the rules. Mercedes are trying to use the rules selectively.
Mercedes made a balls of their pitstop strategy and now are crying about it. Fair play to Hamilton, he accepted the defeat. But Toto Wolff is the biggest crybaby and sore loser in F1 history, throwing his headset around every time something went against him.
That he wants this decided by lawyers is a new low for F1 and the sport could do without people like that. What next? Lawyers in the paddock watching every move? Leave it to Wolff to turn the most exciting finish in history and a badly needed shot in the arm for the sport into one of the most boring finishes.
Anyone who wanted this to finish under a safety car is not a proper F1 fan.
So you are certain that if Hamilton had pitted under SC, he could have overtaken Max (who had also pitted not too distantly ago). There is no chance max pits if Lewis does, so Merc are giving up track position in a situation where in any other race, the race finishes under Safety car.
Maybe Hamiltion should have pitted under the VSC, and assume that Max would not, giving him those laps to over take - but had he done that would max on softer tyres at the very end not still have had an advantage?
All well and good saying RB got it right and Merc wrong when you see how it played out - but Hamilton was comfortably going to win the race until the last safety car, and if proper process had been followed he still would have won, and deserved to have done so. In both instances, Max had nothing to lose by pitting, Hamilton did. In both instances RB only had to do the opposite of Merc.
Acting like Merc got it wrong because they didn't anticipate (1) the safety car (maybe they should have) and (2) Masi throwing the rules out the window in the name of 'entertainment' (BS) is rubbish, imo.
Mercedes set to abort appeal according The Times.
Mercedes are considering aborting their plan to launch a further appeal against the controversial result of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
Lewis Hamilton’s team are moving towards putting the reputation of the sport before their desire to see their driver crowned world champion for the eighth time.
Checo managed it?
Personally I feel the stewarding has been a shitshow all season. Max deserves the title, he benefited from the final stewarding decision, but it wasn’t that single decision that shaped the entirety of the championship. Rules and stewarding need to be simplified and clarified, but Red Bull made the right choice at the end and Mercedes didn’t. That’s all there is to it.
Why should no race end under a safety car? Where is that in the rules?
Yes, it needs to be looked at, but as the rules stand, there is no reason why it can't.
Mercedes, I'd assume, thought Hamilton would take care of the tyres well enough to get to the end ahead of Max. And they were correct. And I'd assume they made the calculation, once the crash happened, that the race director couldn't fairly restart the race before the allotted amount of laps. Therefore, no tyre change.
Masi warped the rules in order to allow a one lap shootout where Lewis may as well have been on 3 wheels against Max. That's just a fact.
Yes, the race ended in a race. But it wasn't really a race. Hamilton was never going to hold Max off on those tyres in that situation.
If this was Race 1 and not race 22 there wouldn't be any hysteria about it.
His behaviour after the crash at Imola should tell you all you need to know about him.
agreed on the tyres point. RBR took a gamble and it paid off. Merc have taken that call before and it paid off, yesterday it went against them swings and roundabouts.
No idea.
I actually think we're talking too much about SC's and Masi. I think we need to give huge credit to Verstappen with what was THE lap of his life. He had one real overtaking possibility, (maybe at a stretch two), and he took it. Yes, his car had the better grip but looking at the onboards, Lewis had the faster car on the straight.
How many of the drivers on the grid yesterday, in Verstappen's car would have done that and succeeded in the one and only lap that they had a chance? Lewis. Kimi or Alonso in their prime, maybe Vettel in his. And that's it. It's an incredible move, if he messes it up he'll never catch Lewis, if he hits Lewis then he'll lose points and Lewis is champion.
I was surprised that Lewis didn't defend as much, you're right in that he should have expected Verstappen on the inside, but if Lewis was responsible for a collision then Max is champion.
Based on Russell’s twitter comments Mercedes have moulded him perfectly to slot into their team.
No race should ever finish under safety car, it should be a race, that's something that needs to be sorted out for next season.
Stewards and RD are different jobs with different types of experience needed.
The RD is to make sure the event runs properly and safely. The stewards are to review incidents and make decisions on them. It makes sense to have a former driver as part of the steward panel each event. But the pool of stewards for the season is too big and it leads to inconsistencies.
The race director needs to be someone who is trained and experienced at race directing. There are a number of people who would fit the bill - Scott Elkins (Formula E), Beaux Barfield (IMSA), Eduardo Freitas (WEC, ELMS. Asian LMS - good interview here)
Alonso definitely not hiding his absolute delight at the outcome there.
Why did Hamilton take such a wide line into that corner knowing that Verstappen was right behind him? I thought he could have protected the inside line more. Was an overtake around the outside possible at that corner? Most of Verstappen's overtakes are late on the brakes up the inside.
The right call was to do what would be done in any other race.
Clear all the backmarkers if possible, and if they're aren't enough laps to do that, then the race ends under a SC.
Or if you want to bend the rules, stop the race, let Hamilton pit, then restart for however many laps you decide.
Half arsing it was the stupidest thing to do.
It's worth mentioning the non existant defending from Hamilton, particularly at Turn 5 (the third time he was taken with the same move there in the race).
Did he expect it would be like L1 and he could just drive off the track and gain nearly 2 seconds?
Fernando, love this guy.
I wanted Max to win and think he deserved to win over the season but the end was a bit of a farce, the decision to just allow the cars between Hamilton & Max unlap themselves was bizarre.
I really wouldn't envy Masi being in the position to make the call on it knowing there was a massive number of people watching, a lot of them not regular viewers and how poor a look it would be to finish behind the SC. This shouldn't play a part in the decision but of course it does.
Also I think it needs to be pointed out the tyres on the cars shouldn't play a part in the decision either, makes no difference in a call like this if Max/Hamilton have new or old tyres, thats the responsibility of the teams and should have no bearing when deciding what to do with the SC
Masi was in an impossible situation. Clearly he didn't want to finish it under a SC as there would've been massive criticism of that the teams agreed that it was highly desirable to finish under green conditions (haven't seen anything contradicting this). He was also aware of the controversy of bringing out the red flag (ironically after Mercedes had a hissy fit about it last week). He wanted to make sure it finished under green conditions and there is enough wiggle room in the regulations to allow him do that.
I think, over this season, it could be argued that Mercedes and Lewis , benefited more from SC's and the ruling of the stewards. Overall I think Verstappen deserved the title so congratulations to him and RB.
But should the chance of a safety car have such a big influence on the result? Perhaps it is time to look at the rules regarding safety cars again.
It is often unclear why we get a full safety car or a virtual safety car. Or when a decision is to red flag the race. Could the sport survive with the VSC and red flag only and get rid of the full safety car? IS there a need to change what can or can not be done during a VSC and Red flag? Of course teams build in strategies around the possibilities of a safety car. And RB definitely had a much better, though riskier, strategy yesterday. Mercedes were caught out a bit.
I am tired of all back and forth with the RD during the race, mostly from Toto and Horner. No team should be allowed contact the RD, except on safety matters concerning their own cars, during the race. Communication should be one way only , RD to the teams. We should not have the nonsense we had in Saudi Arabia of telling Verstappen to allow Hamilton to overtake but not apparently telling Mercedes in time that was going to happen.
We should get rid of the rotating ex-drivers on the stewards panel for each race and have permanent stewards for the whole season in order to bring some consistency into the process.
It is a pity, from the sports point of view, that it looks like this might end up in endless court appeals. I doubt if Mercedes HQ are driving this, I suspect it is more from Toto.( Not too sure how much Daimler Benz actually own of the team )
Its' amazing how many causal fans are losing there minds over this race and have a misguided opinion on race rules etc... try to frame the result by comparing to another sport like football etc... laughable. Cannot wait to watch Drive to Survive next March ;-)
Wait to you hear about Hamilton being a lap down after crashing and being allowed fix the car & unlap himself and and with the faster car going on to finish 2nd in the GP and claim fastest lap
I just have to say, there are a few too many Max fans (or anti-Lewis fans) who seem to think those calling the end a shítshow think Max should be stripped of the title somehow.
Not at all.
But it should be made clear that Mercedes did get screwed in this instance. That's ok to say. You can still maintain that Max is a worthy champion, but say the end was a farce.
