United Ireland Poll - please vote

Ok fair enough, the Brexit campaign came out with some fabulous promises that did not materialize afterwards. But they won a very contested referenda and had they presented details of the trade agreement and NIP in advance they probably would not have.

Still offers a decent roadmap for winning such a referenda though.

The answer blanch to all those issues is that we define and resolve each one in a spirit collective cooperation, within a democratic and time limited process.

That's funny, that is. You won't get a border poll through unless you get those sorted in advance or you hoodwink the people using the Brexit playbook. Have a feeling that the exclusionary nationalists are looking to the latter.

The problem as i see it blanch and starkid, where you want every single issue defined before a referenda, is that while you address each issue, you'll loose people along the way. For example lets say it's determined that the best policy is to disband the AGS and create a new Police. There will be some that are particularly emotional about the AGS and they vote No on that basis alone. That's not a good referenda strategy with macro changes like this. It's basically front-loading emotive arguments when those things could take place afterwards.

You seem happy enough to leave over a million Irish people within a sectarian British statelet though.

Why aren't you advocating additional partitioning? For example let each of the 6 hold their own referenda on it. Basically allowing Antrim and Down to remain British and the other 4 joining the RoI?

If there is, or will be a majority in NI that want a UI, why are you happy enough leaving them in NI that they don't consent to?

Starkid and blanch are the ones dealing in 'exclusionary politics' and cannot see it or do see it and think calling those who want democracy to work 'exclusionary' is some kind of defense.

The hoops they are trying to jump through and the knots they are tying themselves in to try and exclude those who want the question asked is a sight to behold.

Everything they propose has a Unionist veto built into it or are so knowingly out of reach, they cannot be attained.

What utter nonsense.

A border poll at this point in time is undemocratic, because the conditions agreed democratically for the holding of one have not been met. There is nothing exclusionary about that, it respects the democratic decisions already reached that partition will be accepted until something changes. That something hasn't changed.

I am not proposing a Unionist veto in anything. Your blind adherence to a unionist bloc mentality is causing you to see things that aren't there. You even deny the identity of those who want to be Northern Irish, not British, not Irish, continually condescending to them that they are not real. That is possibly the most exclusionary stance that anyone on these boards have taken about any issue.

The conditions for a border poll set under the GFA have not been met - FACT.

You and SF are calling for a border poll now in breach of those conditions - FACT

Nowhere have I called to impose an independent state on anyone - FACT

Roundtable discussions after a referendum replicate the failures of Brexit - FACT

I have called for other options beyond the binary ones to be on the table, that is a fact. These include increased devolution within the UK, a quasi-independent state with some oversight reserved for the UK and Ireland jointly as well as a future independent State with rights guaranteed by the EU as possible options to be discussed. However, I have not attempted to impose them on anyone. You refuse to engage with such ideas out of fear.

Those that want a united Ireland - SF, posters on these threads - won't get one unless they can actually spell out to those in the middle what exactly it will mean in advance of any referendum. That not a single UI advocate will engage in that discussion on here shows up the poverty of the thinking of the exclusionary nationalists.

What 'conditions' were set by the GFA?

The SoS may call a poll when he or she believes it may pass.

That is the condition which Britain's courts found did not constrain the SoS in any way nor imposed any onus on the SoS to justify or evidence their belief.

Therefore calling for a poll is only anti the exclusionary tactics of partitionists.

PeaSea, there's another goal with keeping the referendum nebulous. It keeps stakeholders engaged. If every detail is pre-defined, certain people as you identified, will be left out, they didn't get what they desired and vote No and walk away. But running a nebulous referenda means those pet issues are not yet defined, so they can still make their case, thus less likely to walk away.

'I'm not looking for a super majority' then goes on to advocate for one by denigrating those who think a majority is enough as 'children'.

Yeh ok starkid, whoever you think you are fooling. 😁

If you signed up to the GFA and many moderate Unionists did, then you have already dealt with the notion that the majority wish should be respected. Nationalists have respected it since the GFA.

The Alliance dropped 3 points in the latest poll and it remains to be seen if they are just a holding place for disillusioned Unionist votes.

If there was any remote hankering for an independent NI it would have found a political voice by now.

You can't promise that nobody will lose out financially because of a united Ireland, because there is a huge hole to fix in the form of a UK subsidy, and unless you keep some people on lower public service wages and others on lower social welfare, there is a huge extra bill to be paid. Someone somewhere will either be paying a huge extra tax bill or someone else will be losing out.

Just compare teacher salaries for example.