Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Would you be happy for your children to receive covid-19 vaccine

1454648505160

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 853 ✭✭✭MilkyToast


    Oh, you came back!

    I'm not promoting anything. I'm making people aware that breathable cotton gauze masks exist, if they're looking for options for their children.

    Wish dot com isn't really my bag. Etsy have some with nose wires and lovely patterns for children, though.

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." ~C.S. Lewis



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The RNA based vaccines are a new technology and you can bet their long term impact will be closely monitored. However, if you understand the science of RNA, you'll know that RNA short lived and easily degraded. It should be around just long enough to trigger an immune response.

    And yet the singular reason mRNA technology moved into vaccines was because with few exceptions other avenues for the use of the tech in treatments were halted at the animal testing stage because of serious side effects, too serious to even consider human trials, short lived and easily degraded though it apparently is. Enough to rattle investors. Vaccines were seen as a safer bet because of lower dosages and fewer of them, though vaccines until this pox hit were very much the poor relation as far as return on investment. To date and after over ten years of research into mRNA therapies* the only commercial product Moderna have is their Covid 19 vaccine. They're ramping up other vaccines now, but if this pox hadn't come along the chances of them having any commercial product in humans at this stage would be slim enough.

    I am not saying that mRNA vaccines will cause horrible side effects, but as it stands we only have 18 months of actual data in human models to go on. Any talk of long term effects or lack of them is conjecture at the moment.

    Same goes for the viral vector vaccines when it comes to covid. For a start and in very simple terms of course vaccines are protective against disease, not infection. That includes polio, measles etc vaccines. If you're immune to measles by natural immunity or vaccine and are exposed to measles you will be infected just like someone with no immunity, but that infection will be stamped out by the body before it becomes symptomatic disease. Often it will also smack the virus down so hard and fast that you have a much lesser risk of transmitting the virus to others.

    Secondly covid is a coronavirus. They're nasty little bastards in many ways compared to viruses like the flu, in that they're harder for the immune system to see and fight and immunity doesn't last nearly as long. And that's before variants crop up. We need annual flu vaccines because the little buggers mutate enough to evade previous immunity. However if they didn't mutate any vaccines would last many years. Longevity of immunity and immune system memory varies with the virus concerned. EG measles gives lifetime protection, ditto for polio and chicken pox, tetanus is something like ten years IIRC. I think smallpox was around ten years too. Before covid 19 there was no vaccine against any human coronavirus and the animal coronavirus vaccines(domestic chickens IIRC?) were 50/50 in effectiveness. The world started from scratch in many ways with this pox. There had been research into a vaccine for SARS another coronavirus, but since it died out and didn't go global the interest and especially the money wasn't there to fully pursue it.





    *though they have faced accusations of keeping research internal to the company.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Imagine trying to defend a clear side effect of the Pandemrix vaccine and all those who suffered it. You also claim on this thread there were zero cases of heart issues in the US during the children's Covid vaccine programme - they've just given dose 1 in the US and no proper data has come out as yet as the programme as just commenced. Are you calling that reliable data? Not to mention the trial size was purposefully small that Pfizer submitted. It's all in the FDA submission when they were looking for approval for that age cohort, page 6 to be exact. Where is your source to claim 'zero' effects on children to date and what programme are you referring to? There's a lot of misinformation in your posts but I guess when you're on a certain side, that's ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    You're demanding sources but providing none of your own.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    On heart issues... Here is a paper submitted to the American Heart Association, so not Karen on facebook having a rant.

    A small study of 556 subjects aged 28 to 97 where their biomarkers for cardiovascular disease has been measured for 8 years as a baseline. And they found: We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following Ovaccination

    Oh and further:

    these changes persist for at least 2.5 months post second dose of vac

    Now this is a small study of a very small sample group who it seems already had some cardiovascular issues as their biomarkers were being monitored so it needs much more and wider research with a much larger subject base, so it's not even close to conclusive, but it's interesting and concerning that it seems all of the subjects showed this effect.

    Then again the current advice of boosters are needed for the J&J at half the time period of the others is based on a single study of and even smaller sample group of just over hundred american veterans, over half of whom have underlying conditions and had to be hospitalised at least once in the past year for non covid related issues and the authors didn't look at mortality or hospilisation and acknowledged the limitations, and that's apparently golden. So like I said earlier it does seem to depend on the studies looked at and what is already believed, spreads as the truth de jour the fastest, or needs to be promoted.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Come on Wibbs, you can do better than that. Did you do even cursory fact checking before you posted that?




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Maybe you missed this part where I said: Now this is a small study of a very small sample group who it seems already had some cardiovascular issues as their biomarkers were being monitored so it needs much more and wider research with a much larger subject base, so it's not even close to conclusive.

    The study of the Janssen drop off of efficacy at three months wasn't a full study and had limitations which the authors themselves acknowledged and hasn't been peer reviewed either, but we seem to be running with that one as if it were gospel.

    As for peer review, that setup has a multitude of issues and can be extremely shaky a judge. British medical journal on the subject. Another take on the matter.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭McGarnigle2020


    52 hospitalised. Circa 1 in 17,000 in an ICU. One single death of a healthy child in Ireland in 18 months. Trailing behind car accidents, murder, meningitis, chicken pox, cancer......

    Very likely the bulk of them taken to hospital for other issues and tested positive upon admission. Children being far more likely to be taken to hospital as a precaution for any complaint, because being kids they are less able to articulate their complaint. I was in hospital overnight on two occasions between age three and 11. I've not spent a night in one in the following 25 years, nor have the vast majority of people my age.

    I love when your mob post a figure, stat or table that just proves how benign Covid really is. Keep em comin!

    Post edited by McGarnigle2020 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    So if you knew it was garbage why did you post it?

    Presenting other unrelated things as accepted garbage is a pointless distraction. Jannsen efficacy drop-off has nothing to do with the safety of vaccinating children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭McGarnigle2020


    She strikes me as genuinely unwell. She spent the day of the toy show posting about 20 photos of children abroad wearing masks, then implored RTE to at the very least make the kids on the show wear them.

    To be fair anybody who wears a mask in a profile photo needs to be sectioned. We haven't seen such anti science since the church wanted to burn those who said the Earth wasn't flat.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's actually a good illustration of how too often with this pandemic the "science" is anything but and often contradictory and governments, ours as a case in point are running with contradictory advice that is often downright daft and have been since pretty much the start of it.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    wearing a mask in a social media profile is the new wearing of crucifixes ,public display of goodness , these people are deeply religious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭CruelSummer



    Still waiting for your sources to back up your claim of 'zero' issues with the vaccine in children in the US...

    Here are the FDA conditions granted to Pfizer for emergency authorisation in the US for the Pfizer vaccine in children. Page 5 and 6 make for interesting reading.

    "We have determined that an analysis of spontaneous postmarketing adverse events reported under section 505(k)(1) of the FDCA will not be sufficient to assess known serious risks of myocarditis and pericarditis and identify an unexpected serious risk of subclinical myocarditis. Furthermore, the pharmacovigilance system that FDA is required to maintain under section 505(k)(3) of the FDCA is not sufficient to assess these serious risks."

    August 23, 2021 Approval Letter - Comirnaty (fda.gov)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    I can picture the post COVID-19 tribunal now...

    ...So Ms. Hegarty when did you become such a bitter childless spinster? Was it before the first lockdown or after the media gave you an outlet for your deranged opinions?

    Why do you hate children so much?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Would you go away out of that. So the Irish high court is settling cases for 1million plus just for the laugh is it?

    Of course it's a side effect but sure manufacturers laughing all the way to bank because government gave them an indemnity and swine flu was rushed through + wasnt tested properly on children.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Check out my avatar MM. I've been "on message" for a year. 😁

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    "Covid doesn't effect kids at all!"

    /presents actual figures

    "That's only 52 cases of kids being hospitalised!"

    Yes, 52 children aged up to 12, hospitalised, in one fortnight.

    "And it was probably other things that saw them being hospitalised anyway!"

    Speculate all you want. I gave you hard facts and figures.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    no chance , she has the right opinions on everything from climate to immigration to gender ideology



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    actually Wibbs I had not noticed that before , youre the lone exception in this case



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭McGarnigle2020


    800,000 odd kids aged 12 and under.

    Less than 1 per 200,000, per day, hospitalised. Many of them not hospitalised with Covid but tested positive for asymtomatic covid upon admission.

    How many kids are, all in, hospitalised daily? 1 in 2000, 3000? 1000?

    Covid appears to be a bit like chicken pox, good for kids to get to get it over and done with.

    Only it has a death rate a fraction that of chicken pox. Or anything else you can think of. Statistically speaking Covid and being struck by a sliotar in a freak incident have killed the same amount of children in Ireland in 2021, yet anyone calling for the banning of all school physical activities would be rightly labelled a lunatic.

    Covid does not harm children as a general rule. It harms very few people of all ages as a general rule. I know that upsets some people but science trumps feelings unfortunately.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Many of them not hospitalised with Covid but tested positive for asymtomatic covid upon admission.

    Source?

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Still waiting for your sources to back up your claim of 'zero' issues with the vaccine in children in the US...

    I honestly can't remember the source, I think it was some US pediatrician on Twitter.

    Regardless, if you're claiming that there have been cardiac reactions you ought to be able to produce evidence, right? There is enough attention on this issue, it shouldn't be difficult.

    I have not claimed that there will be no issues. You correctly point out that under-12 vaccination programme is new. I did also write

    We don't have any long-term data on the possible risks from COVID or vaccines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    You said there were ZERO issues in the US vaccination roll out, despite this roll out being far from completed and have now provided no source. . A person on Twitter is a source, or reliable data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭McGarnigle2020


    You know full well NPHET refuses to publish this number and only gives it out upon request from Cabinet subcommittees.

    Was generally hovering around a quarter to a third, although likely higher in children I would imagine given they are even more likely to be asymptomatic than adults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,507 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Again, I wrote:

    I think I read that there have been ZERO cases of cardio reactions in the under-12s in the US.

    Weird choice of word, I think I meant cardiac.

    Anyway, do you have evidence of any cardio reactions in the under-12s in the US? I would honestly be interested to read it. I am not strongly advocating for vaccination of under-12s, despite you painting me as some kind of zealot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,626 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    There were zero issues found in the trials.

    The rate in older age groups is about 1/50k for mild myocarditis side effects so they expect to see a similar or lower rate in younger age groups, this was called out clearly by the regulators during the approval process. By the time the rollout occurs in Ireland we'll have plenty of data from the US and likely other European countries as well.

    Bearing in mind that most vaccines start in the young and then move up the age groups it would be downright odd and against scientific understanding if the effects were greater in the younger age groups, kids generally have little to no adverse reactions to vaccines (and the trials bore this out with the placebo group having much the same experience as the vaccinated group).

    You know what has a relatively high rate of myocarditis? SARS-COV2 (and other virus). You know what reduces that effect significantly? Vaccines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭McGarnigle2020


    I'm more shocked to discover that the most mentally unstable architect in Ireland isn't actually Graham Dwyer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    Before you go around making sweeping statements about how little harm can be caused to children due to covid, please research MIS -C and have a good look at the stats for children under 12 and the complications that can arise.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-real-risk-of-heart-inflammation-to-kids-is-from-covid-19not-the-vaccine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭Shilock


    I'd happily look like pinhead out of Hellraiser before I'd put that gunk in my kids. I've taken it under my own volition and happily altered my RNA and put a synthetic immune response into my body for the good and all. If for any reason it goes wrong down the line I'll bare the responsibility for my own actions. But definitely not going to get my younger kids vaccinated for covid. They have to let their own immune system develop with the right sanitary practices, healthy lifestyle, exercise and food. There's no long-term data for myself let alone the kid's.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Another post of misinformation:

    “ It would be downright odd and against scientific understanding if the effects were greater in the higher age groups”.

    It is a clear scientific fact that the mRNA vaccines post a greater risk to younger adults, and in the case of younger males specifically for myocarditis. Moderna is no longer used in many European countries for younger adults for this reason.

    It is also clear from the FDA recommendation I posted that many of the children now being vaccinated are essentially part of the unknown. Pfizer is to collect and share data with the FDA in relation to myocarditis and other side effects until 2022-2024 depending on which medical condition they’re investigating.



Advertisement