Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Yes, but when that advice translates into measures which go beyond the advisor’s field of expertise, this question becomes more complicated and goes beyond a simple binary question of whether the advisor is right or wrong in the advice they are giving.

We aren’t simply talking about a doctor being asked to give a medical opinion here, or some other limited thing like an architect being asked to certify a building project, or a solicitor giving a client some advice. What we are talking about here are two years of the most significant and sustained curbs on personal and commercial freedoms in the history of the State. These measures and the effects they have had, have reverberated into almost every facet of society and will continue to reverberate for years to come in political, socioeconomic and many other terms.

My point is that Tony Holohan, and NPHET more broadly, may well have the expertise to say that a certain suite of restrictions will curb the virus — but ultimately it is neither their field nor their job to assess the massive constellation of ramifications the measures they advocate will have. Nor should it be of course, but that is the moment you expect society — including the media and the political establishment — to fill that void and provide the challenge.

Instead, it has all simply become a parroting exercise — and to question any of it still seems to attract the ironic accusation of being anti-intellectual.

What happens to Children who refuse to wear a mask?

Throw them in Juvenile? Let them do some hard time? Principal give them lines on the blackboard?

And then what? Parents will force their child to wear one?

Counsellors and Psychotherapists will be in the money in about 10 years from now

Yep.... Just like somebody who is meant to be isolating could be down the pub right now spreading the virus

Now there's probably technology you can use to make it more stringent, like if you have the user take a video of themselves doing the test for example - there's obviously ways around faking that as well though

My point is a level of trust would be needed and I'd like to think somebody coming home for christmas on a faked antigen test result would at least stay away from their grandparents while home

You make a fair point, but I'd honestly say the seeming reluctance of anyone to challenge is either they largely agree with what governments are doing, and/or nobody wants to be the one to try to place a "value" (for want of a better expression) on lives or on X number of lives. It might be what some are thinking, but I doubt there's a journalist anywhere who'd suggest out loud that an additional XXX number of deaths is ok as long as YYY is open.

And if its cold on the way home, id advice putting a mask on it keeps the face warm, same as a hat keeps head warm!!!! Get a grip and wear a mask for gods sake!!!!!

I think you need a new rhetoric.. you're all over these threads repeating the same line.

Wear your mask wherever you wish if it makes you feel safer (and I mean that sincerely) - HOWEVER that doesn't entitle you to attack others because they don't feel the same level of threat or risk you apparently do on the subject.

The reality, after 18 months of evidence, is that Covid is of little real threat to the vast majority of adults in this country, and even less so to children. There is no justification for making 9 year olds wear a mask in a classroom other than appeasing hysterical overreactive types. Given we live in a country populated with a noisy minority of these, and have a Taoiseach terrified of making a decision he might be held accountable for generally, it's no surprise he has - once again - bowed to NPHET and Holohan's leaks and grandstanding in the media over the last week.

But that doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't make it necessary.

And what risk assessments were carried out during our pandemic response?

It wasn't on the effects to non COVID care because that's been left by the wayside.

It wasn't on the effects locking down for so long would have on the economy and borrowing billions of euros for the pleasure.

It certainly wasn't the effects on children who've been roundly ignored by the government since this started and are now being asked to cocoon to protect d'vulnerable. MM said today that it would cost a whooping 80 million to fit all schools with filters. Sure, ya can't be doing that. No, it's better to spunk countless hundreds of millions on those beautiful "gold standard" PCR tests.

This actually makes sense on one level - to keep immunising against variants. In the papers today some vaccine manufacturers stated that a vaccine against the new variant could take up to 8 months. Others stated that current vaccines would protect against varients …and for added confusion the opposite in other headlines!

There are some distinctions however on innate vs adaptive (vaccine induced) immunity. Some scientists claim that vaccine induced immunity accelerates a virus’s evolutionary trajectory to mutate at a more rapid speed…which can cause greater problems as time goes on.

…. which leads me to an interesting interview (someone shared with me) with a leading scientist -a rare exception since he has qualifications+experience in multiple fields -immunology, virology, pharmacology, vaccine development & global interventions. He had a senior role with the Gates Foundation and other high profile organisations. His name is Geert Vanden Bossche. The interview was on a website called thehighwire- the guy seemed pretty knowledgeable & genuinely concerned about some of the decisions being made globally & that scientists seemed to be locked into groupthink for fear of being ostracised. Anyway it was interesting to hear some dialogue on how the immune system functions -vaccine benefits in addition to problems that can arise and how natural immunity can slow the mutation of viruses.

It is important to hear different voices & opinions on the issue since we are in new territory with all this - science allows for debate … but this ‘new science’ era we are in seems to be doing the opposite which is unusual.

So watching the 6.1 and masks for kids is all over the place - RTE say it's required, but a clip of Micheal responding to Alan Kelly has him saying "required but not regulated in law"

So advisory then... muppet!

Thank you for that. I will source that and listen to it.

Good point. What annoys me more though (and fully understanding that it's deliberate and a tactic throughout this "crisis") is the confusing and contradictory language and reporting to try and blur the lines between "suggested" and "required" to try and coerce people into compliance.

Who are the hysterical minority??? You are lucky we live in a country that has NPHET. Third world countries wouldnt be agreeing with you there. I can tell you. If the kids in 3rd world countries had the option of going to school, getting vaccinated and having a govt that could spend millions on puplic health, they wouldnt need a psychologist if they were asked to wear a mask. Covid is real, it is a global pandemic. There are millions of people all over the world dead from it. It may not suit you but no one really gives a S... what you think in the scale of things.