I think the only one's 'afraid of the future' in the south is the diehard supporter of the power swap or bitter partitionists.
The future will be what the majority want it to be blanch. I am more than happy with that.
How many different futures have you concocted to avoid that 'one' decision a majority may make?
1. No border poll until your criteria are me.
2. a super majority (AKA a Unionist veto)
3. an independent NI (devil may care if that goes up in flames, you'll be for imposing it, even though nobody has asked for it)
4. and now throwing your weight behind the argument that we have not expressed a will to unite the two partitioned parts of Ireland.
And others are the 'exclusionary' ones???? The absolute gall and cheek tbh. 😁
Your parsing and analysing of my posts would get an F in any exam. You miss all the salient points and you draw them together into a false pejorative narrative.
So are you saying you haven't advocated any of the above to 'exclude' the option you fear most?
I have said that your parsing, analysing and paraphrasing is inaccurate and completely misses the point. I must have failed in how I communicated it if you understand it in that way. Either that or you are unable to comprehend beyond your green-tinted worldview.
Well they are exclusionary no matter what way you parse them.
Partitionist Phases of Grief:
Phase 1: 'never going to happen'.
Phase 2: 'we can't afford it'.
Phase 3: 'Unionists must buy in'.
Phase 4: 'NI must go independent'.
Phase 5: ‘We’ll reject unification in the south’.
Phase 6: Acceptance
Anybody know what questions they asked?
If this is going to be the carry on we will never have a united Ireland, flag may have to change and a new anthem, I like our own of course but change if we have to.
I'd give my left bollkck for a United Ireland
We don't have to do anything. Unionists will be in no position to make demands after losing a vote to unify the country, they can make suggestions and if a good majority of the population are okay with them then they may happen.
And that's why this will never work!
the attitude that loyalists have to put up or shut up, is not conducive to a happy integrated future.
we must make loyalist welcome and there has to be compromises on both sides in order for it to work.
Why are you confusing the finding of consensus with dictat? I'd imagine a good majority of people would be okay with new, augmented, or complimentary, symbols in a United Ireland as long as they are agreed upon democratically.
I'm a bit confused by both of your arguments.
You're both saying that there have to be compromises on both sides and decisions arrived at democratically.
Maybe your positions are closer than you both realise?
What he was saying is that once a majority of people voted for a United Ireland then there would not have to be anything done to appease the loyalists except out of a friendly gesture.
That is repugnant to the Good Friday Agreement and the Constitution, which require the people to be united in advance of the territory being united.
Is that why FG and FF have merged/coalesced/joined at the hip? They have united to set an example?
Not sure what that has to do with anything I posted.
Everyone has to be 'united'.
What does that mean? Do PBP have o change political outlook?
What do you mean by 'united'?
*Test to show how fundamentally bizarre your take on the constitution is.
Once people in the ROI get an indication of the cost of a UI I suspect that many will not vote for it. However, I would suspect that a small majority south of the border will vote for a UI particularly those at the lower end of the tax scale.
Regardless of what some “experts” and some posters on here say the constitution is clear on this, there would have to be a referendum.
IMO the best way to win a UI is to borrow a lesson from the Brexit referendum. Yes i know Brexit is essentially a disaster after the fact, but things like future relationships with the EU ahead of the referendum where unknowable.
SO what did the Brexit referendum do right?
Presented a simple concept, simple messaging and with good sloganeering and nebulous and lofty goal in mind. That's exactly the stuff that translates well to a UI poll.
Getting bogged down with details and nuance will mean front-loading issues that can be emotional triggers for people ahead of the poll. That's not good referendum strategy in my view. Flags and anthems as an example. Some people are very attached to such and such symbol and by having that debate and making a 'decision' ahead of the poll, means losing some of those potential voters.
Better to keep a UI as a sort of nebulous and lofty goal with issues to be decided later.
For example, let us vote for a 2nd Irish Republic, ROI 2.0, that's something positive and loaded with potential. Vote Yes to agree a democratic time limited process by which the constitution is amended.
best of luck in that type of UNited Ireland. it will be as bitter as anything that came before.
some utter delusional idiots that think Ireland can unite by excluding 700k or so. compromise will be needed in a reimagined ireland. of course many on this island lack the imagnation to see it.
even sf admit this stuff, so why do we have to listen to this guff from people?
I wouldn't expect any exclusionary nationalists of the 50% plus one vote persuasion to understand my post. It runs contrary to their philosophy of a united Ireland and sod what anyone else thinks.
Thankfully, I think the Irish people are better than that.
i don't think that lad understands anything. thank god he's gone from the other thread.
people who believe a 50 per cent plus one united ireland with zero concession or ideas aren't worth the time to debate. its a serious lack of political analysis.
Listen to any SF member, none of them think like this.
I was just listening to an old Robbie Smyth (an phoblacht) interview, he literally scoffs at the idea that none will be needed. its basically the only response that is needed. Its written into the GFA.
The whole issue will be exactly this though. people get their knickers in a twist over Irelands call and can't recognise why irish rugby use it. i can only imagine it in a UNited Ireland. we aren't mature enough for a United Ireland. millions of people unable to put themselves in the shoes of a people who have been on this Island for half a millenia. They did awful things, and they can be awful **** wedded to the past, but to live in a peaceful United Ireland we need to work with them. Even if the UVF didn't return (which they would) we'd have huge areas of the North of our country as basically no go zones.
we still have hundreds of peacewalls in Belfast and other places. there is literal and mental barriers to a United Ireland. it won't happen peacefully for many many years.
To be clear, I support Unification and outright reject any suggestions that we should unify without having any consideration for those who vote against it. I spent long enough seeing what happened in NI when simple rule by majority was the way.
So with that context on where I'm coming from..... people get their knickers in a twist because Ireland's Call is sh*te, not because it is a compromise. Those who think AnF should be the exclusive National Anthem to represent Irish Rugby are in a small and shrinking minority. It is entirely possible (as I do myself) to think we should absolutely have a compromise anthem for Irish rugby....while also thinking Ireland's Call is a crime against music. Give me one that isn't absolute scutter and I'm fully in favour!
So you cannot explain what you mean. I figured that.
Why did you not go for broke and say 'billions of peacewalls'?
Would have suited the sensational tone of your post which is under researched.
so you deny there is physical peacewalls still dividing the communities? if you think its sensationalist good luck to you. best of luck in that type of Ireland. its would be utterly ****. and that type of thinking is a barrier to reunification.
Aye, there are around 40 peace walls in Belfast with most planned for removal.
There aren't a hundred peace walls in the entirety of NI, let alone hundredS in Belfast.
Maybe the poster is counting each individual brick?
oh sorry yeah ok fair enough. of you include barriers and other non walls, some give the figure as 80. planned for removal by 2023, but probably unlikely. the point isn't the numbers, its the idea of the walls in themselves. the fact that they remain shows the real divisions. there is massive divisions still. the idea that a UI is close without compromises or change is deluded.
they run for almost 30 kilometres in total. so yeah my figure is too high, but the offhand dismissal or disregard for them is just as bad.
theres a fair few people who don't get Irelands call. Why should we have to tolerate it just cause of Rory Best etc, is a common thing.
No I didnt deny anything but your sensationalism.