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Taxed to the hilt

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and now we re back to the fundamentals of modern political and economic ideologies, light touch, self regulation, lassie faire, whatever you want to call it...

    how far do we really want to push this? how wrecked do things need to be, for us to say enough!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    our current political and economic ideologies are economically primarily to the right, implemented and maintained by both the political left and right, how far right would you like to go?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    I call it for what it is the fact that we are paying for a bloated, outdated and in a lot of areas not fit for purpose public sector. For years the taxpayer has seen their tax dollars diminish in the services that it once covered as an example refuge collection was a service you got for paying your income tax now we have to pay for that out of after tax monie. We see services to the poor that were once covered by your income tax also diminish - the current housing crisis. Yet people like you think the private sector are the ones doing this when nothing could be further from the truth. The government have the power to stop vulture funds buying up all the properties, they have the power to make insurance companies lower premiums, they have the power to put controls in place for finance companies. The government is supposed to be keeping an eye for the greater good but instead its all about power and how if they get into government their pay and pensions will shoot up. I said it on here many a time. Nothing will change until the sh1t politicians speak when they are trying to be elected is tied to their pay and what they get for a pension. As an example Sinn Fein will probably be in power next time and they are lying through their teeth with regards to having a solution to the housing issue.So we should be saying to Hairy Lou and Piercey that if they dont do it in the 4 years they get zero pension. But turkeys dont vote for xmas and as long as people like yourself think the private sector is to blame for our current situation when the watchdog and the people with the power to change it (the government) are not doing their job properly.

    Post edited by fliball123 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,908 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Ah yes Norway, home to the worlds undisputed leaders in hypocrisy. No country in the world is as adavanced in hypocrisy as Norway. And in large part you can thank their soverign wealth fund for that. Particularly notable are the funds investments in renewable energy and it's propensity for 'responsible' investments:

    "Norges keeps responsible investment high on agenda"

    The fund is fueled by the creation of vast quantities of CO2 - all exported of course, so Norwegians can keep their gut wrenchingly hypocritical image for eco-responsibility pristine and clean. Did you know, Norway is leading the planet on the use of EV's? They have managed this by exporting vast quantities of oil, which brings in so much CO2 revenue, they can subsidise and fund a near endless stream of image enhancing green initiatives and socially progressive polices. By getting other countries to produce their CO2 for them, Norway has managed to establish an unassailable reputation for crusading against CO2 emissions and proving that eco friendly policies are practical and achievable - all you need are vast quantities of oil and even larger reserves of conceit and gall.

    Leaving that aside - the best example I know of for how badly managed and taxed Ireland is, is New Zealand. A budget usually in surplus and lower levels of taxation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    far :)

    joking, i actually don't know , i just found out i've covid



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,908 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Ireland is an intrinsically socialist country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,432 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Norway built their sovereign fund by investing their oil money and not spending it on consumption. They have extensive hydroelectricity which charges the EVs. Their oil is sold on the open market and so does not increase global CO2 - and if they left it in the ground, it would make no difference.

    We have stopped making peat briquettes and producing peat products, but are importing the stuff from Latvia - now that is daft.

    If interest rates start climbing, expect tax rates to rise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    swf's are a great idea, but based on the sale of fossil fuels is beyond dump, how does burning of oil not lead to increasing CO2 levels, this is beyond human dumbness!

    yes, moving off fossil fuels is gonna be damn hard

    central banks are currently stuck, they may not be able to increase rates for some time, as it would probably induce economic slow down, even recessions in some nations, and they know this, so...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I think all parties are somewhat left or at the very most center. We have the most progressive tax system in the EU:

    The "temporary" USC 8% rate kicks in at 70k. We have a very generous welfare system. I wouldn't really regard any of that as right wing. The low corporation tax has allowed us to attract foreign investment that otherwise wouldn't come here.

    I think the issue is that lower earners want to have Irish levels of taxation and Swedish services. It is a matter of expectations.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Your last point is spot on currently those earning the AIW and higher pay more income tax than the likes of Sweeden and we receive a much poorer services in return. This is one of the biggest issues in Irish society today that has been glossed over as our left leanings which have housing and the poor and everything else pushed higher on the agenda and instead of cutting waste which could save a fortune the government see peoples hard earned money as the only option. Its time to see real savings from the government



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    I did overtime I couldnt get out of last weekend. I get to keep less than half of that for myself.

    What a waste of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I was thinking more of those on significantly higher earnings than the AIW, more those who earn quite a bit more than the 70k and therefore pay a good bit on the 8% USC rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    yes i hear ya !

    i recall leo tone deaf stating that 80k a year isn't a lot of money and getting slaughtered for it by people who seem very much unaware of a good days work, but these days it really isn't! people on benefits do seem to have a lot more value for money than people on 80k paying their own way!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It is probably because they heard Ireland is low tax the person on 80k must be keeping all of it. It is fairly decent salary, but you certainly aren't well off on it. After tax you would come out with €4360 a month or €52234 a year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,702 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The Carbon tax isn't a "solution" to Climate Change. Oh if it were only that easy to solve. The truth is that the problem that we are all in is a fiendishly complex problem, the likes of which the human race has never had to tackle before. It seems to be primed to run up against all of our biggest blind spots and biases as human beings.

    We (and every other country) need to reduce our carbon output. We're going to need to do a lot of different things to do that if we want any chance of reaching the climate change.

    Right now we have a system in place where it is still relatively cheap to continue to burn fossil fuels, in our power plants, vehicles and homes when you consider the long term damage that they are doing to the planet. Carbon pricing and carbon taxes are a mechanism for making it more expensive to continue to damage the planet. They act as an incentive for individuals, companies and governments to both seek out alternatives, where available, or at least minimise their output.

    They're only one prong of what will need to be a multi-pronged approach. To be honest we haven't even begun to tackle the real changes yet which doesn't fill me with much hope for the future. For example the national herd has exploded since milk quotas were removed back in 2015. Cattle contributes massively to the country's greenhouse gas emissions and yet you won't find any politicians willing to say that the herd needs to be reduced in any way.

    The biggest misconception out there is all anyone needs to do is recycle more, build a few cycle lanes, switch to some plug in hybrids and that then it'll be ok to continue with our "growth at all costs" mindset. That simply won't cut it. We need radical change and the longer we put it off the more radical the required changes become.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    And if you earn 90k, just 10k more, you get to keep less than half that 10k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,524 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Thats the point, its not a solution, but the government talk about it as if it will make a difference and it isnt going to make any, they talk about increasing steadily over time it as if that will directly correspond to a reduction in fossil fuel usage and the truth of the matter is that it wont make any difference .


    its just another way of getting joe public to pay tax



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Timmyr


    Yes but NZ also has its own tax problems, like no capital gains tax



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,908 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    While a socialist might see that as a 'problem', I see it as an opportunity.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    would you be better off telling them you want it as time off or you can get a E500 tax free voucher from your employer once a year I believe, like a one for all voucher.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Timmyr


    You clearly haven't lived in NZ, almost impossible to buy a first home because of this



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,908 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    True, but I intend to. I'm not a first home buyer. Ireland has one of the world's highest rates of CGT, and the goverment is quietly driving private landlords into selling up, yet, there are threads about the unaffordability of houses here, so clearly there is more to it than CGT. Remind us again about what role the cost and scarcity of consents plays in the cost of providing housing in NZ.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Timmyr


    The scarcity of consents plays little to no part of the housing problem in NZ, the main issue is land banking, people buying property and doing nothing with it but knowing it will increase in value and can be sold without any taxes

    As someone who recently bought a house here, the lack of CGT is a massive issue, when(if) you move here you might get a better understanding


    Also, if you intend to move here and buy a house, then technically you are a first home buyer



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Don't forget that that rural family needs 500k from the taxpayer to rebuild their home devastated by mica.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Not hugely because its not enough. The problem is that in order for it to work, spending ability would have to be highly curtailed which will mean mass job losses and huge civil unrest which government's wont implement because people wont stand for it. We are too used to a high standard of living.

    The climate change cause and affect link is so weak that most people don't see it I think. For example, the energy needed to make a new fitted kitchen is making a micro dent on the environment but I dont think people think about it. They just buy it because the old kitchen looks dated (despite being perfectly functional).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Saying that people using plastics is not a measure of anything. People will always use plastic bags, the question is - to what extent? The plastic bag levy in 2002 led to a drop in bag consumption by 90%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Because the quarries were unregulated by the city based government departments



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,434 ✭✭✭McGiver


    You've clearly never been to or lived in one. I did both.

    Ireland is one of the least taxed and most light-touch regulation (US-like) countries in Europe. At least when it comes to economic policy.

    In terms of public services and overall government expenditure - that must be a joke if you think that Ireland is socialist.

    Shabby infrastructure, public services almost non existent, no local autonomy & budget to speak of, failing mediocre health care (see EHCI reports), no universal education, no universal childcare, no parental leave proper etc etc

    Yes, cost of living is 2nd highest in the EU now but that's nothing to do with overall level of taxation which is 3rd lowest in the EU (after micro tax havens Malta and Cyprus).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,302 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That was a local government responsibility - I have talked many many times about the failures of our local government system based around the archaic British county system.



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