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Taxed to the hilt

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    funnily enough, it actually does, partly anyway



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's shocking and the sad thing is we are probably one of the better countries in the world for government expenditure efficiency.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Competition and globalisation reduces that to a reasonably acceptable level. The government is on another level altogether but a lot of that waste employes people that otherwise would be on the dole so it is going out one way or another.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Off topic, but a fair bit of private sector wastage can be environmentally detrimental.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah thats all largely bullsh1t, we ve conned ourselves into thinking these things truly benefits all, when theres clear evidence, they dont. we re currently experiencing the fastest level of growth of wealth inequality humanity has ever experienced, if your statement was truly true, this wouldnt be the case. this is largely due to the rapidly rising inefficiencies in both the public and private sectors, particularly in the private sector, as we re currently experiencing the rapid growth of rent seeking or wealth extraction from the private sector, this is very evident with our failing property markets



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I dont really care about where in the world we stand because the a lot of countries are rife with corruption and are not democratic.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Apart from the likes of Zuckerberg the increasing gap in wealth is due to asset values, not income. The stock market is at stupid high multiples as everyone was stick at home putting money into robin hood stocks instead of the pockets of publicans. These very wealthy people own assets not cash in the bank. The fact wages haven't kept up with inflation is disgraceful but a drop in the ocean when looking to explain the increase in wealth inequality.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The idealist paradise of milk and honey you want does not and never will exist. Expending energy complaining about it won't get you anywhere. Find others like you and you will just wind eachother up further and achieve nothing. Ireland is about as good as it gets. The Nordic countries are great but look at the natural resources they have. We are but a speck on the map and punching far above our weight as it is.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Please god don't say "tax the rich". If you understood basic economic theory and some tax planning along with just basic things like people borrowing against their assets which is not taxable income you would understand that raising taxes would only punish those not wealthy enough to afford the best tax planners. Inheritance tax can be minimised in multiple ways. Figure out what jobs pay more than minimum wage and reskill until you can do one of them.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Delete the Facebook app and unsubscribe from Netflix. The only social media app you probably need is whatapp. Get rid of everything else and reclaim a few hours each day to get yourself out of the hole you are in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭Get Real


    In relation to the Original Post. The fact is, we are taxed very low in comparison to the rest of Europe.

    See above. We don't pay as much as other countries.

    That's not to say I disagree with the OP. The system is fced. But last place we should be looking is moaning about tax.

    Lads and ladies, the people with the real money are only too happy to let us moan at taxes, and let us bicker among each other re public V private sector.

    When all we are collectively is a bunch of minnows in a small pond. I know it sounds a very crack pot theory.

    But arguing among ourselves about the things at the tip of the surface, is exactly what works for those in power. I've seen it time and time and again. And no, I've no solution to it. It is what it is.



  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Completely agree with your statement about the property market. I'm looking to purchase my first home and I pay rent in Dublin. I don't have time to wait for some magic fix, I have to figure out what to do given the circumstances and that means increasing income and decreasing my expenses. It is tough but nothing will come of complaining. You can vote. In the meantime learn a new skill that will generate income.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Idealism?

    come off the stage.


    The childrens hospital. Waste waste and more waste.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Posts: 61 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure. Agreed. Doesn't mean we are not all relatively well off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Is a solution in so far as that the less money people have, the less they consume. And consumption is helping kill the planet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    So has consumption dropped since carbon taxes came in?

    Can you then see drops in consumption when those taxes are increased?


    I drove to work this morning and didnt see anyone cycling to work, so either the carbon tax isnt working or its not high enough?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭amacca


    Give it time...hitting people in the pocket has changed behaviours before......smoking, plastic bag charges......although I do take the point there aren't many viable alternatives when it comes to what carbon taxes are trying to achieve so all that carbon tax money should be pumped back into schemes to provide alternatives..................



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    5% of the workforce earn minimum wage (2019 figures). You're renting to a small minority. And then, only s small minority of people use coal. Who is this rant aimed at?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I still see people smoking and using plastic bags.


    The carbon tax is simply lipservice to climate action, a money making taxation because if they wanted change they would implement it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It depends what you mean by "we". Lower earners are taxed very little in comparison to other countries. If you compare to Germany (Hesse as this is where the financial sector in Germany is), the cross over is around 150k. You will start paying more in Ireland past that level. It is important to also mention that at that level in Germany you can reduce your tax bill by getting private insurance instead of the public one. Also, you get a lot more for the tax you pay and won't have to pay for dental/medical. There also isn't the same state pension for everyone, it is related to how much you were being paid.

    If you look at low earners, say 20k, it is certainly the case that they are very lightly taxed here in comparison. In Ireland you will pay €1378 per year, in Germany/Hesse it would be €5257.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    This is a ridiculous self pitying post. Ok guessing OP is rural and young. Thing is, rural areas everywhere don't have many jobs unless you've invested in yourself in an area that will allow you to WFH. If you haven't you should move. Rural Ireland is backwater and everyone should move out of it for at least a while. Grand to move back to but expecting anything but a minimum wage job when you're relatively young and inexperienced in a sparsely populated area is more than a bit entitled.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    To paraphrase JFK's inaugural speech - 'Think not how much tax you pay - think how much your tax pays for you and others!'

    The water that comes out of your tap - paid for by tax. The waste water you flush away - paid for by tax. The school teacher that taught you and will teach your children and grand children - paid for by tax. The Garda and Ambulance that comes to you when you are attacked and worse, or have a RTA - paid for by tax. The motorways and roads - built and kept in good order by you tax. The A&E dept when you suffer a trauma or need urgent medical help - paid for by tax. Plus many more.

    If only the Gov collected more tax, so we could have better services - shorter waiting lists for medical procedures, etc. If only there was enough money to pay for better public transport.

    Well, of course we would all like our own tax bill to be reduced, and for everyone else to make up the difference. I suggest the OP does the Lotto - that is a voluntary tax, but it might be you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It is a nice sentiment, but we have nearly a million outside the tax net. We had protests against water charges. We will never have good services here because people don't want to pay for them and the state is dreadful at running them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Jesus christ, Im an environmentalist and while I agree some measures are essential, talking nonsense wont help, what is the alternative to your near fascist extremist green plan? is there a comprehensive public transport network? when is that going to materialise? what is the Green party solution? 2 wheels bad, 4 wheels baaaaad, We are better when Eamon Ryan is asleep, at least we hope he can do less harm that way, or does he wake up and realise how much he is paid and then foist some green knee jerk agenda on us. The world is screwed, we are way past how much CO2 has been introduced to the atmosphere and environment, but unless there is a viable alternative, crazy policies wont work.

    So when we get rid of all the cars, will we actually be allowed on buses or trains, because the buses I see going about belch diesel smoke, maybe we should go back to an agrarian society like those nice chaps in the Taliban or ISIS want, extremist lunatics (I mean the greens).



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    We have been borrowing for day to day expenditure - that is unsustainable. Either we tax more or we have less services. While interest rates are low, it is not that serious, but rates will rise and we will then be in trouble which will be the cause of austerity and all that brings.

    Of course we all want everything for nothing but most of us grow up and realise we must pay our way in life - both as a nation and as individuals.

    The poor should be net recipients and the rich net donors. Is it so hard to understand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we actually must embrace the perpetual deficit, as by not doing so, we become largely depended on credit to run our economies, which tends to lead to....(graph supplied!)

    once again, governments are nothing like a household, period! by balancing the public books, it generally leads to, same situation as graph!

    when a government runs a deficit, this money finds its way into private sector bank accounts, as this money is spent into the economy, pup payments etc. in an American context, this is what has happened when they ran deficits, its a similar situation here, again pup payments etc, again graph supplied

    central banks are in a tricky position, if they raise rates soon, it will very likely induce downturns, maybe even recessions in many countries, i.e. rates may not raise too much in the very near future, i.e. borrowing makes far more sense than not borrowing right now, even though this can be problematic, as you explained austerity has been well proven since the dawn of time to be a completely reckless policy, doing astonishing damage to economies.

    best of luck with taxing wealth, we re dead set on maintaining this status quo!



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Contrast our position with Norway which has a Sovereign Wealth Fund, not a National Debt. They do not want to even dip into the dividends of this fund for day to day spending - it is to safeguard their future and their children's future. It is where their oil money went.

    If only we had the same.



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