Taxed to the hilt

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351228#Comment_118351228

I think you are talking politics there. Sept 2019 predates the Greens taking over that ministry.

Pat Rabbitte when he was the minister responsible defended that position saying that no-one was queueing up to take up the exploration licences. The oil or gas might be there, (we have yet to get a single barrel of oil), but the experience of the Corrib Gas might make them nervous.

Besides, it will still be there in 50 - 100 years if we need it.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351228#Comment_118351228

Trust me when we reach the end of the worlds oil reserves, Ireland’s oil and gas will be taken at gun point

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118352326#Comment_118352326

i stand corrected!

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118352937#Comment_118352937

Tax is a complex business and not well understood by most taxpayers. Many pay more than they should because of this.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118351348#Comment_118351348

We agree that effective direct taxes on typical incomes are not high by EU standards. Okay.

However, I feel you are too quick to dismiss the marginal rate as an "academic exercise...abstract concept".

Lots of workers offered overtime / payrise / promotion know all about marginal tax rates on any extra income, and it may well have behavioural responses.

Is it reasonable to say that some people refuse overtime / extra hours / don't go for promotion / or look to be paid cash-in-hand, and this is related to the 48.5% marginal tax rates?

I think so.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118353897#Comment_118353897

Still academic. What matters is the effective tax rate.

48000 gross - 36193 net - effective income tax including social contributions = 24.6%

65000 gross - effective tax rate 30.8%

Single person, no children, or any special tax credits, the worst personal situation in terms of tax.

That's not a high tax. And it's not the usual 40% peddled around and marginal tax rate of 58% rate is irrelevant...

Can you articulate your point?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118352294#Comment_118352294

Actually, the fact is that the wells were proven to be very viable. Back in September 2019 Leo Varadkar was Taoiseach, he announced at a meeting of the United Nations that Ireland was banning all fossil fuel exploration on foot of scientific advise about it's climate impact. This scientific advise was given by the Climate Change Advisory Council (the greens in disguise, Sinead O Brien et al.) Sean Canney was minister for state in the relevant department at the time, it was he who brought the original memo to cabinet which gave this ban leagal standing. When dealing with other goverments, EU, UN, COP26 etc. our leaders will do anything to be 'best boy in the class' irrespective of the long term economic & financial cost to our country. We are sitting on a pot of gold and are too meek & submissive to mine it case some one somewhere be offended, where would the likes of Norway be today if they had that attitude ?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118352358#Comment_118352358

Of course I'm talking politics, the decision to ban all fossil fuel explorations was a political one by Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach back in September 2019 The Greens were/are very influential in the background and are pushing their agenda through the likes of the Climate Change Advisory Council and numerous other bodies, they have doubled their influence over the last few years with their leader as minister.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355282#Comment_118355282

Its all a matter of perspective, if you are a low to average earner, your overall effective rate of tax is comparably low. What most people look at it though is what do i get taxed on incremental pay and in most cases the tax take is higher than the personal take 52/48.

If you are a high earner and get a bonus on top you get well into the low to mid 40s pretty quickly.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355282#Comment_118355282

My points are as follows:

(1) effective direct tax rates are not very high, I agree

(2) most people do not know or calculate their own effective tax rate

(3) most workers focus on the marginal rate on any extra income (perhaps they shouldn't, but they do)

(4) this may be one reason why people think Ireland is high tax, even though we both know it isn't

(5) top marginal tax rates of 50% are common in many EU countries

(6) where Ireland is very unusual is the point at which workers/earners reach the top MTR, as low as 36k approx for single people, below median FT earnings

(7) the 48.5% MTR on 36k upwards does has an effect on people's decisions.

Andrewf20

We should count ourselves fairly lucky living in Ireland. Many countries in the world are a hell hole by comparison. We are in the teens in the world happiness index rankings and 2nd in world in the human development index.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355401#Comment_118355401

i agree.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355292#Comment_118355292

Please share the evidence of where these well were "proven" to be very viable.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355386#Comment_118355386

Yeah so you agree with me, glad to hear it 😎

I consider the (3) the biggest issue in Irish public discourse as it's influencing policy. It blocks any serious tax reform discussion and deployment "'cause taxes are high". The only way for taxes hence is the reduction. Which doesn't square up with public services and especially infrastructure deficit ROI has accumulated. Infrastructure really isn't on Western European or even wider EU average level here and there's no way you can effectively invest if you keep reducing taxes.

If people can't calculate their effective tax rate (1-(net salary/gross salary)*100), then there's some issue somewhere...

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356031#Comment_118356031

I'm unable to attach links but here is a small example ; Company : Providence Resources

Licence : Standard Exploration Licence No. 1/11

Site : Ballyroe (50Km off the Cork coast)

An extract from the report states that ' In March 2012 results from a sixth well drilled 7m. deep showed a flow rate which far exceeded pre drill expectations with rates in excess of 3,500 BOPD (Barrels of oil per day) Post well analysis in conjunction with new 3D seismic data set, led to a substantila upgrade in the field size to 1 billion barrels STOIIP - (this a method of estimating how much oil in a resevoir that can be economically brought to the surface)

One billion barrels of oil @ say $70.00 per barrel is $70 Billion that is viable in any currency !.......and that's just one oil field and the tip of a very big iceberg (or oilberg !)

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356955#Comment_118356955

The estimated recoverable amount from that field is 311 million barrels (or the equivalent of 346 million if you include the related natural gas deposits), not 1 billion, as per the independent audit. It's now ten years since the well was discovered, how much oil has it produced? And that's in private hands, I can't imagine how much slower it would be if the Irish state had nationalised the oil and gas exploration industry. In fact, this field has been explored since the 70s, and this is the first well that has had any economically viable numbers. How much would it have cost the state for all the misses?

monseiur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357236#Comment_118357236

You ask for evidence of where these wells were proven to be viable, I provided one random sample - there are many more but I won't waste any more of my time on you - as the saying goes 'There's non so blind as those who refuse to see'

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118360751#Comment_118360751

The only one that looks semi viable and yet isn't being exploited is a very unlikely "random" choice.