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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Problem with that is the police weren't doing their job, the place was being burned down around them.

    Hell there were more national Guard mobilised for the verdict in the Rittenhouse trial than the riots that caused the trial.

    If people feel there is a lack of law/rules/power they will, at a certain point, step into fill that gap.

    You saw it in the UK during the retail riots with normal people arming themselves with whatever they could because they couldn't rely on the police to assist them.


    If the police/enforcement class don't do their job then someone else will, because it still needs to be done.

    Thus while thing is a massive symptom of a failure in political leadership which allows these riots to happen on what has become an exceedingly regular occurance, the media supporting such riots & rioters even when they are provably misleading people regarding the event that caused the unrest & rioting based on that incorrect premise.

    And finally it also falls on the cops, both for some very questionable shootings, tactics, etc which have essentially resulted in little more than a slap on the wrist for the police involved even though they were in the wrong.

    Cops are largely being used to enforce laws relating to victimless & nonviolent crimes, both in the US and elsewhere(definitely including Ireland). If there was a significant shift away from this politically motivated form of enforcement/policing/repression I think there would be a lot less of these incidents that lead to riots in the first place.

    But that'll never happen since it makes political hay to justify agendas and policies.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Fair points, I suppose my main issue is he went twenty miles to get involved. If the rioters were coming down his street I'd have no issue in fully supporting his actions.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    @otmmyboy2 - And finally it also falls on the cops, both for some very questionable shootings, tactics, etc which have essentially resulted in little more than a slap on the wrist for the police involved even though they were in the wrong.

    What are/were these events/situations?

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    That was one of the things used against him in the trial too, but considering it is only a 30 minute drive from Antioch(which is a town) to Kenosha(nearest city, where Kyle's dad lives and most of his father's side of the family) it isn't like he traveled to somewhere far away to which he had no connection.

    He drove to his dad's family's city, stayed with a friend, went out and cleaned up the next day, was sought out among other armed individuals by a business(car dealership I believe) to protect a property, which is the area where the events happened that night.

    Put it this way, for timescale, the average commute in Ireland is 28.2 minutes, US is 27.6. Easy travel distance, particularly when driving.


    Personally, I don't think him going 20 miles to somewhere he had family connection, friends, etc to help out should cast any negative aspersions on him.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    otmmyboy2 - Personally, I don't think him going 20 miles to somewhere he had family connection, friends, etc to help out should cast any negative aspersions on him.

    A lot of the liberal news outlets are doing what can only be described as a CYA exercise by reporting that actual facts now when before the trail they reported him as having crossed state lines with an illegal fiream among other falsehoods.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I seen last night that someone mowed down a lot of people taking part in a Christmas parade in Wisconsin. Reports have 5 dead and dozens injured.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Philando Castile - Yanez was let go by the city police dept.

    Daniel Shaver - Brailsford was terminated by the police dept, only to be reinstated(which was only disclosed later) so he could get medical expenses and retire on medical grounds, with a pension.

    Breonna Taylor - Jury not presented with homicide charges against the officers involved. Officer who fired the killing shot was fired.

    Duncan Lemp - No charged for any of the officers involved.

    Johnny Hurley - Good samaritan who shot & killed a gunman, no charges filed against the cop who killed him.

    Herkimer - dog shot out of hand by police officer. No criminal charges filed, not even for reckless discharge.

    Numerous - look up "dog shot by police" and there are numerous instances of cops shooting dogs, even after entering the wrong house, houses without a warrant or any exigent circumstances, etc and never getting disciplined let alone charges filed.

    Marvin Booker - killed after being hit with a taser, put in a sleeper hold and hit with nunchuks while being pinned to the floor. Cops not disciplined and never had charges filed. City subsequently paid 6 million in an excessive force suit.

    Parkland - Scot Peterson was the school resource officer who cowardly stayed outside while the shooter was killing those inside. Considering parkland happened back in 2018 and the trial of Peterson is still ongoing(December 9th is the next court date) that is pretty dire in terms of time passed already, but obviously no conviction yet.

    Then there is the travesty of Dylan Wall, UPS driver shot and killed while 20 cops shoot at his van with 2 gunmen inside. Charges still not been filed against those involved. Officers also taking cover behind occupied vehicles.

    At least with the George Floyd trial Derek Chauvin was held accountable for his actions, but increasingly a lot of cops, even where they obviously did wrong but not enough to satisfy the high burden of proof in a criminal trial, are just let go by their police departments.


    Just a few recent examples, but a quick google will find a ton of similarly questionable shootings, tactics, inaction, decisions, etc by police who are, apparently, supposed to protect the public.

    Hell, there have been a few stories about NY cops hitting numerous bystanders while attempting to shoot a bad guy.


    Our lot are not immune to this either, guards injuring themselves by negligent discharges(feet, legs, etc), firearms & ammunition left unattended, similarly questionable things that at most seem to result in some retraining whereas for any member of the public who did similar would have the book thrown at them.

    Patrick McDonnell, the garda who killed a mother through his own reckless driving, fled the scene, 6 hours later contacted the NRA and admitted his involvement. EDIT - still a serving garda from all reports!


    Expand it to not just covering loss of life or firearms related:

    Recent - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-suspended-after-crashing-official-car-and-failing-breath-test-1.4730217

    Also I cannot find the details but I remember a few years ago a guard had been drinking while watching some match or other, left, drove home and on the way crashed into someone else on the motorway. Garda fled the scene, wouldn't answer the door and after several hours turned himself in. Never heard any more about that one, nor can I even find it now. All searches for "garda crash fled scene" or similar point to the previous 2 incidents above.


    There is a disturbing trend that, bar extreme negligence or obvious intent, the worst a cop can suffer is firing from their job, and here it seems to be even lesser punishments than that.

    Post edited by otmmyboy2 on

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Indeed, looking forward to Kyle Rittenhouse and Nick Sandmann co-owning MSNBC, and Biden getting a defamation & damages suit filed(hopefully) for painting Kyle as a white supremacist 🙄


    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    The other thread on squirrels got me thinking, what was the bounty on foxes back in the 70/80s. Dad said you'd nearly have a weeks wages if you were at it a lot between the bounty and the pelt.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Used to get 50p per tail and one lad would pay a couple of pound for the pelt. You'd probably have to be dropping a couple of hundred or more per week to make it a good paying job. Either that or I was being seriously undercut in prices. 😁

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    He's after saying the most pelts went for was £27 back in the day. He said you'd only be getting that after skinning them yerself but I don't see how that works, surely the people buying fox for a pelt would want it professionally done? He had a story to tell about the old folk when the bounty was ten shillings. They'd wait till the fox was ripe in the hope that the Garda wouldn't take the tongue. The fox might see three stations. Suppose it was a lot of money back then.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    In old money I think it was 7 & 6 but I never seen anything more than a fiver for a full pelt. Should have gone to the same fella he was going to. Having said that where I was it was hard sell them. Dublin city were even back then hunting was not a "big thing" and you'd get looks for having a Rabbits foot.

    I remeber doing a school project and I donemine of firearms with drawings, information,etc. Teacher was so shocked she brought my parents in and after some discussion I was told to do it again on another subject. This is 35- 40 years ago.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Dunno but they better bring it back or I'm going to have to start selling my ass, just after putting €105.95 worth of diesel into the car.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    What's the going rate for your ass?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,976 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    He's after saying the most pelts went for was £27 back in the day. He said you'd only be getting that after skinning them yerself but I don't see how that works, surely the people buying fox for a pelt would want it professionally done?

    Not that hard to do TBH.It's just a bit tricky getting the face and lower jaw off as well as the brush and paw pads. More pulling and tugging job than cutting. But ask you aul fellah, did whoever buy the pelts raw [IE freshly skinned] or did they have to tan them too? As that's where the work is for the hunter/trapper.I'd assume they must have been tanned or salted at least?

    It depends what the furriers want the pelts for,if say they are doing a coat, they will want a bunch of consistent in colour and texture pelts.If it is just say a jacket trim then any colour or texture might do. And this is where commercial farming comes in as it is much easier to breed to a certain standard,than hunt for out in the wild. As well as the fact that Russia and to a lesser extent Canada/US dominate the world market in commercial pelts, you can see then why no one really wants to buy naturally grown and renewable resource pelts from hunters anymore.


    I remeber doing a school project and I donemine of firearms with drawings, information,etc. Teacher was so shocked she brought my parents in and after some discussion I was told to do it again on another subject. This is 35- 40 years ago.

    An 80's kid then as well?

    You went to some progressive liberal school then? [In Monty Python grumbling millionaires sketch tone] " Ya had it, easy lad!. In my school,they were too poor to afford a rabbit for the biology lessons.I had to go out,in all weathers after me school days and shoot three rabbits for the biology teacher,and bring them back to school next week for the biology lessons, in exchange for getting a good grade in me Xmas science exams!" As I only managed two rabbits and a crow, the miserable fooker only gave me a passing grade.But my awsomeness and cred went up 100% with everyone in the class as the dude with a really real gun. After that, I was kind of avoided and left alone by a good few teachers and school bullies too....Wonder why?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 - You went to some progressive liberal school then?

    Not really. Just one teacher and only really on that issue. The principal, and we didn't know it then, was a "bleeping, bleep, bleep, bleeper". He used to whoop us for any infraction with his two favorite tactics being grabbing you under the chin (chin fat) and shaking you, and the classic 24" ruler across the hands. Once got the ruler for dirty fingernails, I sh* you not. I'd spent the evening/night before helping my Father fix a Fiat ritmo so couldn't get the oil/grease out fully.

    Good times.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,976 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45



    You went to some progressive liberal school then?

    Meant cynically,there was no such thing back in them days.

    The principal, and we didn't know it then, was a "bleeping, bleep, bleep, bleeper". He used to whoop us for any infraction with his two favorite tactics being grabbing you under the chin (chin fat) and shaking you, and the classic 24" ruler across the hands. 

    Evil fuk!! One principal I had, had a nasty trick was to grab your hair beside your ear and yank it upwards! Instant pain and control. But a trick I kept handy in my bouncing/personal protection days for discussing the finer points of entry to premises or other silliness by inebriated guests. Maybe that's why I hate bullies and people who are violent to kids.😡Is the kid old enough to understand wrong from right?Then why did you hit them?Are they too young to understand that concept ?Then why did you hit them?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,192 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    That last bit about “why did you hit them” is great Griz. New one for me.I was never in school for corporal punishment. But still hate the idea that adults, supposed to be shaping young minds, thought that was acceptable or worse - a benefit.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    MODERATOR NOTE:

    After receiving complaint(s) about the discussion of RTKBA I have reviewed the thread and removed any and all references to the topic. Its prohibited on this forum and shouldn't have been allowed in the first place.

    The case can be spoken about, but the opinions and discussion of RTKBA stuff must be left out.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Well I haven't put a number on it as it hasn't come to that yet! While I was joking, a fill of diesel is circa €20 more expensive, that's the guts of an additional €90 cost a month.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Carbon tax, fuel shortage and a pandemic hitting at the same time, it'll get worse before it gets better. Winter is coming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,976 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Remember being caned, hit with a steel ruler, slapped in the face,hit with wooden blackboard dusters, insulted, humiliated by one teacher in being told to point out where the German death camps were in Europe in ww2 because I am half German, and then lying blatantly to my mothers face when she challenged her on it. Claimed I made it up..Then being made to clean with toothbrushes the dining hall of a boarding school, where I was a day pupil with others, because that same head bastard who did the above hair pulling trick I mentioned decided my class be humiliated for some reason in group detention.

    Swear to God...If someone physically or otherwise abuses a kid in front of me...Two things will happen, they will be going to casualty at best or the morgue at worst, and I'll be going to jail for GBH or manslaughter😡😡....Can I trust one of you with my bail money and to come get me out if I ring you at any hour?🙄

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,976 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Going by escort Ireland...The going rate for Rent boys or TVs is around 225 /PH 😂

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    This changes everything. I'll just pick up the fancy mouthwash and it's all good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    57 cent per litre more than 9 months ago.

    29 cent a litre more than 3 months ago.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    The last time fuel prices hit this high, oil was $147 per barrel. As of 10pm oil was $82 per barrel. Explain that.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,683 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Government taxes - so if they are that concerned about spiralling costs for ordinary Joe Soaps they could easily do something about it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,407 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I wasn't disputing fuel prices were high, you've lost me.



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