Changes in the GAA - super thread

My tuppence worth;

1. Provincial finalists advance to Final 16.

2. Tier 2 winner from previous year advances to Final 16.

3. 14 teams based on league ranking and Tier 3 winner from previous year playoff for 7 places in the Final 16. (If the Tier 2 winner from the previous year has made their provincial final, 15 teams based on league ranking and Tier 3 winner from previous year playoff for 8 places in the Final 16.)

4. 8 Final 16 qualifier losers compete in Tier 2 Championship. Winner advances to Final 16 of the following year.

5. 8 teams excluded from the Final 16 qualifiers compete in Tier 3 Championship. Winner advances to the Final 16 qualifiers of the following year.

a. Final 16 in 4 groups of 4. Provincial finalists rewarded with 2 home games. Top 2 from each group advance to quarter-finals.

b. Tier 2 in 2 groups of 4. Top 2 from each group advance to semi-finals.

c. Tier 3 in 2 groups of 4. Top 2 from each group advance to semi-finals.

d. The Tier 2 and Tier 3 finals can be played before the All-Ireland semi-finals.

That's exactly it but unfortunately those who hold the most power are running the provincial shows and they won't let that get diluted without a fight. You also have those that think a 6 or 8 team competition with 3 games to win it is something to jump up and down about. I can understand it if a county who have no success win one because it means taking out two counties ranked higher than them but any team who win one at least once a decade really shouldn't have any interest in it. All Irelands are the currency by which any team is judged.

Lets have a look at that with some real life examples, lets use 2019, the last good year.

The Provincial finals would be as follows.

Galway and Roscommon.

Dublin and Meath.

Cork and Kerry.

Cavan and Donegal.

The groups (for the Sam McGuire) would be as follows with my estimation of the top two in bold.

1 Mayo, Galway, Kildare, Tipp

2 Kerry, Monaghan, Fermanagh, Cork

3 Tyrone, Roscommon, Meath, Clare

4 Dublin, Cavan, Donegal, Armagh

So QFs based on the groups would be some combination of Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Monaghan, Tyrone, Meath, Dublin, Donegal.

But if you include the provincial finalists then nothing changes as all the provincial finalists were in the top two divisions anyway.

Here are a list of provincial finalists since the 2009 season (prior to 2009 you had Div 1 A/B etc) that have come from outside the top two Divisions, and who they would have usurped in brackets.

2021 - None

2020 - Cork, Tipp (Laois, Clare)

2019 - None

2018 - Laois, Fermanagh (Meath, Cork)

2017 - None

2016 - Westmeath, Tipp (Meath, Derry)

2015 - Sligo (Laois)

2014 - None

2013 - London, Meath, Monaghan - What do you do if more than 3 teams from outside the top 2 make it ?

2012 - Clare, Sligo, (Galway, Armagh)

2011 - Wexford, Roscommon (Westmeath, Derry)

2010 - Limerick, Louth, Sligo, Roscommon - As 2013

2009 - Limerick, Antrim (Laois, Kildare)

So there is the chances of a bit of intrigue there, i.e Div 3 and 4 teams making the QF, but a lop sided provincial draw would be the main driver of that, a lop sided draw with all the good teams on one side will help them.

You can have a year long County Scene and give the Club Scene back their intercounty players. Here's how it's done:

Division 4 is played first in January, Febuary & March (9 teams)

1/ Antrim

2/ Louth

3/ Sligo

4/ Leitrim

5/ Carlow

6/ Waterford

7/ Wexford

8/ New York

9/ London

2nd week in Jan - Round 1

3rd week in Jan - Round 2

4th week in Jan - Round 3

1st week in Feb - Round 4

2nd week in Feb - Round 5

3rd week in Feb - Round 6

4th week in Feb - Round 7

1st week in Mar - Round 8

2nd week in Mar - Round 9

All teams get a 'holiday' to New York which can be used as an incentive for players in the Divsion 4 teams to join their county in the 4th Division. (GAA will need to put hands into their pockets for this one).

Another benifit is that there would be more interest in this Division 4 championship as all 'hard core' GAA fans would be interested in this, all counties in this league would take interest along with all the Division 3 counties. All Division 3 teams would be interested as the top team would get promoted into Division 3 straight after this division has ended.

Division 3 is played in March, April & May

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Derry

3/ Fermanagh

4/ Cavan

5/ Longford

6/ Offaly

7/ Limerick

8/ Tipperary

9/ Wicklow

3rd week in March - Round 1

4th week in March - Round 2

1st week in April - Round 3

2nd week in April - Round 4

3rd week in April - Round 5

4th week in April - Round 6

1st week in May - Round 7

2nd week in May - Round 8

3rd week in May - Round 9

Top team gets promoted. Bottom team gets relegated

Division 2 is played in May, June & July

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Mayo

3/ Meath

4/ Down

5/ Westmeath

6/ Kildare

7/ Clare

8/ Cork

9/ Laois

4th week in May - Round 1

1st week in June - Round 2

2nd week in June - Round 3

3rd week in June - Round 4

4th week in June - Round 5

1st week in July - Round 6

2nd week in July - Round 7

3rd week in July - Round 8

4th week in July - Round 9

Again top team gets promoted and the bottom team gets relegated

Division 1 is played in Aug, Sept & Oct

1/ Promoted Team

2/ Donegal

3/ Tyrone

4/ Armagh

5/ Monaghan

6/ Kerry

7/ Dublin

8/ Galway

9/ Roscommon

1st week in Aug - Round 1

2nd week in Aug - Round 2

3rd week in Aug - Round 3

4th week in Aug - Round 4

1st week in Sept - Round 5

2nd week in Sept - Round 6

3rd week in Sept - Round 7

4th week in Sept - Round 8

1st week in Oct - Round 9

4 teams progress to Semi Final

Semi Final on the following week

Top plays 4th

2nd plays 3rd

Final on the 3rd week of October.

With this system all intercounty teams get at least 8 games. All teams have the potential to win Sam. There is intercounty football for 10 months of the year and all clubs can get their players for 9 months of the year if the county doesn't make promotion that particular year. The teams getting promoted will be blooded so they will be up to speed straight away.

"Hard core" GAA fans will be interested in what is going on in their own county club competitions, not what Division 4 teams are up to in winter.

Administrators in GAA have one main concern, that is look after their own role and/or ability to access tickets for big games. Its all about protecting themselves.

The players come bottom of the pile in the GAA.

Only a player strike will make the administrators take note.

I think they would be interested in both and it would give the 'Hard Core' supporters back their club fixtures with a full compliment of players. I'd be interested in watching a top of the table clash in Feb after coming home managing the kids during the day especially if I though my county would be coming across them the next month.

The beaufiful thing about it is that if you get promoted you don't have to wait til next season to see how you have progressed. Uniquely a team can get promoted and relegated in the same season.

Provisional yes. Keep the club.

Each county would have 6/7 months to run their own championship, it's hard to know where to fit in the provisional semi and final of the club but a bit more brains cells on this and we can come up with a workable solution.

Its obvious by now that Leitrim, Sligo, Fermanagh, etc are not going to win Sam Maguire any time soon or their provinces unfortunately. Sligo average winning Connacht something like every 40 years.

So about how putting together a North-West team including these 3, maybe a North-East team, Midlands, etc. Would be interesting if nothing else.

Proposal B was an attempt at a 2 tiered championship and got beaten down. While the players are in favour, a lot of administrators seem to be against.

So maybe a 1 tier championship, and when the division 3 and 4 teams are knocked out, they combine into regional teams.

Here is what that plan would look like in 2020 if it was based on the 2019 league, the 2019 championship and a "fictional" 2019 Second tier.

In the proposed system the provincials would be held early, then the league , then the championship

But since we never had that situation I have used the previous years league and provincials as the starting point.

I'm guessing after the 1st round it would be highest remaining seed plays lowest remaining seed etc in the QFs and the same with the SF

McGuinness's proposal calls for the 12th seed to be the previous years second tier champion, but how do you determine that initially if you never had a second tier, so I just looked at the 2019 Div 3 and Div 4 and picked Derry as the winner of some second tier competition.

1. Mayo - Div 1 2019 final winner
2. Kerry - Div 1 2019 final runner up
3. Tyrone - Div 1 2019
4. Dublin - Div 1 2019
5. Galway - Div 1 2019
6. Monaghan - Div 1 2019
7. Donegal - Top Div 2 2019 final winner
8. Meath- Top Div 2 2019 final runner up
9. Roscommon - Relegated from Div 1 2019 
10. Cavan - Relegated from Div 1 2019
11. Fermanagh - Third Div 2 2019
12. Derry (second tier winner 2019 - my guess)
13. Kildare (4th Div 2) instead of 2019 Connacht champs Roscommon 
14. Armagh (5th Div 2) instead of 2019 Leinster champs Dublin
15. Clare (6th Div 2) instead of 2019 Munster champs Kerry 
16. Cork or Westmeath (7th (relegated) Div 2 or 1st (promoted) Div 3 2019) instead of 2019 Ulster champs Donegal

Tier 1 1st round games

• Mayo v Cork/Westmeath
• Kerry v Clare
• Tyrone v Armagh
• Dublin v Kildare
• Galway v Derry
• Monaghan v Fermanagh
• Donegal v Cavan
• Meath v Roscommon

QF (my guess)

• Mayo v Roscommon
• Kerry v Donegal
• Tyrone v Fermanagh
• Dublin v Galway

SF (my guess)

• Mayo v Dublin
• Kerry v Tyrone

Final (my guess)

• Mayo v Tyrone.

Tier 2 would be something like 

1. Laois

2. Cork or Westmeath depending on hoe 16th in tier 1 is determined

3. Tipp

4. Down

5. Louth

6. Longford

7. Offaly

8. Leitrim

9. Carlow

10. Sligo

11. Antrim

12. Waterford

13. Wexford

14. Wicklow

15. Limerick

16. London

In reality the QFs in Tier 1 are not a million miles off what we had already (pre super 8)

The 4 provincial winners, the Tier 2 winner from the previous year and 15 highest league teams could contest the All-Ireland in 4 groups of 5 (20 teams).

Pot 1: Provincial winners.

Pots 2 to 5: Based on league placing.

Fixtures;

Week 1: 5v1, 2v3

Week 2: 4v5

Week 3: 1v2, 3v4

Week 4: 5v3

Week 5: 2v5, 1v4

Week 6: 3v1, 4v2.

All teams get 2 home games and no team plays more than 2 weeks in a row.

Top 2 to quarter-finals. The league would have to be restructured so that teams play no more than 6 matches.

The Tailteann Cup can be played out in 2 groups of 6. Top 2 into semi-finals. Tailteann winner secures a place in the Top 20 of the following year.

Have we any confirmation of this yet? Was listening to Dalo's hurling show and they were saying that the AI hurling final will be July 24th and AI football on July 31st, maybe the league will be in April?

Either way, no official word yet ...

Wrong thread