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Traffic Congestion.

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Comments

  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not if the land is owned by the company. Costs nothing for Employees to use it.

    So if you're to pay for parking then you should also pay for your office space or to leave your bicycle on site. Where does this end ? lol



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i meant where parking in general won't cost the employee money.

    being given a car parking space when you work in a supermarket in ballaghadereen is different to being given a car parking space if you work in the IFSC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    There are people out there with a very definitive idea of "Work"

    Some of us have a very blended work life.

    This week I'll WFH all week.

    Last week I had to go to the office twice and 2 days on construction sites.

    Next week I've to go to Cork and probably 2 other construction sites.


    My previous role similar. WFH 40% Site 40% Office 20%


    My role will always involve a car.

    I cycle a lot. Cycle to the kids school.

    I walk a lot. Walk to the shops.

    I get the bus a lot. Bus to the office if going to be there all day. Bus to town.

    But it would be frankly ridiculous to start charging me BIK for the pleasure of doing my job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    If an office building is owned by the company, can I just move in and install my sauna and jacuzzi into one of their rooms, because if the building is owned by the company, it costs nothing for me to use it, right?

    All land cost money at one stage. Parking spaces cost money to buy, to maintain, to protect and secure. Why shouldn't drivers pay the cost instead of expecting their non-driving colleagues to share the cost?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, I'd expect a much lower cost of parking in the supermarket in Ballaghadereen than in the IFSC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You pay for fuel. You pay for tolls. You pay for car insurance. Are they all ridiculously charging you for the pleasure of doing your job? Why would parking space be any different?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,914 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Should cyclists have to pay for shower facilities in their workplace, instead of expecting their non-cycling colleagues to share the cost?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring



    Sure lash BIK onto the commuter belt workers, very Green Party

    Post edited by Wildly Boaring on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Sure, yeah, that makes sense, and some for the lunchtime joggers and the girlies-going-out-on-the town users of the changing facilities. An hourly charge for the showers and the car parking would be a good idea.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's always funny when people equate 'workers' with 'motorists'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Or equate commuter belt commuters as workers. Or are they commuting to mass daily??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You know that people commute without using a car, right? Bus, train, tram, cycling, walking, running...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,914 ✭✭✭Allinall


    I wonder why no companies implement those charges?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring



    I said all commuter drivers are workers.

    Nothing else.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Possibly because we've allowed ourselves to live in a car-centric society where the needs of others have been ignored for decades


    That wouldn't be true either - students, stay at home parents doing the school run, grannies and grandads doing childcare, there would be lots of others on the road.

    But the main point is the confusion between the needs of motorists and the needs of workers - they're not the same thing.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why ? because it's absolutely insane to think People should pay for work parking. It would be another tax on the working.

    In that case why should a worker have free internet, free Tea/Coffee ? or even free desk space ? you open that door you can add tax to simply anything. Work should be made more attractive not less.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tolls are unconstitutional as we have the right to travel unhindered and untaxed which is another reason you won't see court cases with all the unpaid illegal fines they were imposing during lockdown because they'd be thrown out of the higher courts. But the courts and our private corporation An Garda Síochána facilitate the collection of revenue for the toll company. Unless we enter a contract with this company which many of us have through toll tags and the likes we don't have to pay tolls and shouldn't. It's bad enough that the Taxpayer has to give millions to the operators of the M3 toll for "underuse".



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Probably because it is unattractive to have to pay to park at work. Then if they did that they should charge cyclists the same money to keep their bikes on the property.

    I personally wouldn't pay a fee to park, that would be another tax I'm unwilling to pay and would simply find another job or not take employment with that company and if it was enforced by Government I would become self unemployed and work for the state.

    But as I said previously, all my company has to do is put my place of work as home working remotely and problem solved. I really don't have a fixed place of work anyway and parking when I get to sites is essential for maintenance to essential services.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    So eh any traffic congestion lately?

    M1 southbound in the morning and northbound evening is still gridlocked.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    If you made all parking, everywhere, paid. I reckon you would see a large fall off in local traffic, where people arent bothered walking even 3-4 minutes...

    Charge for going over the canals, charge for entering the zone inside the M50. All parking is euro an hour minimum in Dublin city. On sundays, you could have max day rate of say E5. This money should then go, to providing a fit for purpose transport system for dublin!

    Also I would massively increase motor tax levels on all new cars, except electric. Electric can go from E170 up to say E340. All ICE and hybrid increase. Petrol should be a minimum of E500 and diesel E750...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I have no real objection to pay parking. In many areas residents need to pay to park outside their homes, in terms of annual parking permits etc. Some companies don't provide parking for employees and they either pay for a nearby car park or on street parking. Often they have to park far away to get cheaper day rates. It also makes the sums on will I take the bus or drive more towards the bus.


    We need to ramp up pressure to get people working from home 1+ days a week, in particular in public services where it may be possible. If all council employees had to pay for parking a stiff amount they might consider switching job closer to home or moving house, or going on public transport.

    Tolls, taxes all drive behavioural change. Tax petrols, everyone buys a diesel, give electric cars discounts people switch to electric, legalise scooters and uptake will rise. If there was taxes entering the city from say 7am to 10am like the London congestion charge you can be sure people would make it their business to avoid those hours. I for one am moving house to be closer to work, but I understand not all people can switch home or employer as easily. It only took me 6 years.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Did you copy this nonsense from Facebook? It really is tinfoil hat gibberish!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,411 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Thanks for that, I must bring Ryanair to court now for hindering my travel in the summer to Spain through the fare and taxes they collected from me.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm gonna sue galway bay for preventing me from travelling unhindered from spiddal to ballyvaughan.



  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What are ye talking about ? you do not enter into a contract with a private company they have no right to take money, it's in contractual law. Most people that have toll tags choose to enter a contract with the toll company, same with those who go onto the toll payment sites.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what do you mean by 'the right to travel unhindered' anyway?


    jesus, why am i asking? i actually don't care about your answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's the problem People don't want to know or care. But I'm amused as to what ye find amusing as to why you think that a private company can take money without you entering into a contract ?

    How do they get the information about who passes the tolls, a private company ? who gives them this information ? no such thing then as data protection ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    I'm just reading these now so this point may have been addressed. Did someone already point out that there are several cycling routes that provide options to driving around M50. You seem to be unaware of them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    across the liffey too?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Did someone earlier say that cycle lanes cause congestion?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,832 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ticketing every car in the 200m of bus lanes before left turns would solve the problem soon enough, and raise a lot of money. Just don’t understand why this isn’t done



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    In reality the majority of Gardai "couldn't be bothered". They are not tax collectors nor do they see a point in delaying a few drivers who are simply wanting to turn left. For the latter, they are free to use their discretion and therefore can ignore blatant law breaking.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And yet such a simple fix to get the buses moving. Couldn’t care less is drivers are further delayed…..it’s the public transport that we should be prioritising



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Simple answer is 1000 euro fines and 6 points on licence for driving in bus lanes or entering bus lanes way before left turns. Massive Garda blitz on this over a two week period would make selfish drivers think twice before blocking lanes from buses.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,839 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think two thinngs are needed for bus lanes: segregation as you approach the junction and tough enforcement. Segregation is unfortunately needed. However, as the likes of the wands outside Whitehall church show, drivers will still drive the few hundred metres down the bus lane which is why enforcement is required. This could take the form of on-bus cameras. Punitive fines will soon change people's ways.

    By freeing up bus lanes, busses will become much more efficient alowing more busses to operate when eneded. This will mean that more people who do not need to use their cars at busy times will naturally opt for a bus. Those who need to use their car/van/etc. will have less traffic holding them up.

    However, can't see it happening despite the climate-crisis PR crap announced yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    The green duty on fuel each year will sort out the traffic congestion.

    Imagine an extra 10c per litre on motor fuel?

    People have too much money if they are driving short distances,

    example is a Q of cars outside a drive thru coffee hut in Stillorgan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Chiparus




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,411 ✭✭✭McGrath5


    Really? Petrol / Diesel retail prices are at an all time high yet I don't see any drop in traffic volumes, I think the problem is a large cohort of people are hopelessly addicted to their cars ie using them to go a few hundred meters down the road. If it was €10 per liter they still wouldn't change their ways, its depressing.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Taxation is an effective form of dissuasion as evidenced with smoking where the numbers smoking are dropping by 1-2% yearly as they become more and more expensive.

    Another example was when the motor tax system was adjusted to discourage diesel over petrol and it worked very well. The motor tax system is due for another shake up very soon which will provide further disincentive to purchasing ICE cars and incentivize purchasing EV's.

    As for making people cut down on use of private cars, the following measures also work well

    • Removal of free parking
    • Increase in parking costs
    • Removal of all on street parking
    • Park n strides on the outskirts of cities
    • Congestion charges
    • Bus priority measures (lanes, junction priority, higher frequency, lower costs, RPTI etc)
    • Safe active travel infrastructure
    • and so on

    All of the above are on their way too so as time goes on, its going to be a bigger and bigger pain to drive your car and should you decide to do so, its going to be more and more expensive



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect the number smoking would be falling anyway. the sort of person not discouraged by a €10 packet of cigarettes isn't going to be much dissuaded by an €11 pack of cigarettes. the reasons for the smoking falloff are many and varied, it's certainly not just down to price.

    regarding the tax system incentivising diesel, my initial response would be 'so?'; it's no indication that people would actually give up their cars because of fuel prices, just that they'll change which car they'll buy.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Try €15 eur a pack

    Regarding the tax system, no one tax will drive a change in behaviour or purchase options, but stack them up and you drive change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t remember the principles from economics class at school, but isn’t there a model where the price v demand isn’t a direct correlation, but rather once the price gets to a certain point, then demand goes off a cliff? I suspect will be like that with petrol prices



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,547 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know an ex-smoker who said one reason he gave up was that it became a lonely affair. it used to be that you'd often find more people outside the pub smoking, than in, but that has changed noticeably.



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