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Ending of the Common Agricultural Policy.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    He doesn't care about the money as the land is about privacy... he tried to play with the farmers for 10 years and it didn't work... he also knows it is a forever thing....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I'd be interested to have some links on that. I have my old Teagasc green cert workbooks somewhere here plus any other reputable source (and years of practical experience) which suggest the opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    That's 100% up to him. Fair play to him for taking the financial hit on it. He is entitled to do that. I was only pointing it out in case he was unknowingly taking it. If he knows the implications then all good



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭Grueller




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,543 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    A neighbour sowed poplars within 20mtrs of my back door, I thought it was a **** thing to do andwhen they got to 60ft I harassed him enough to take them down.

    I know that legally people can do that but morally it is so wrong so tell your friend to be considerate of neighbours if they're near



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think that nowadays there are some restrictions on how close you can plant without getting explicit permission. And you have to basically get planning permission to plant now so they can't just stick them into the ground and hope you don't notice until it is too late!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,543 ✭✭✭✭wrangler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The people who damaged my friends property had the said "green cert" do you want me to post pics of the damage here...

    The course was a few years ago and i likely have dumped the notes... I do remember it being said the weight of the machinery not allowing oxygen into the soil... it also mentioned the intensity of slurry and fertilizer ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I am surprised as horticulture (as in veg) lads would be mad for FYM. Or slurry if they can get it. There is a thing that they would sometimes do called "green manure" where they grow a crop specifically to plough it into the ground because the organic matter helps to improve the soil structure. They do that because they usually don't have access to organic matter from FYM/manure and the soil needs it after years of veg being grown in it and nutrients taken away in those veg. Another factor would be the types of soil which favour veg tend to be sandier soils top begin with which don't hold on to nutrients without that organic matter.

    Mixing up weight of machinery with slurry is confusing you. There are methods of application which reduce soil compaction. It has nothing to do with an inherent property of slurry itself.

    The lads who left your buddy's field in bits may have done so simply because it wasn't their own. The same idea behind the concept that someone who might take good care of their own house might more or less trash a rented one. And what you see as "in bits" might just have been then being careless and taking the piss in terms of leaving cattle on it a bit too long and poaching or leaving tracks in it. Which you can get in trouble for nowadays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    How did they damage it?

    The weight of the machinery can cause compaction, the intensity of the slurry can lead to an explosion in microbial life, earthworms etc.


    The first is not Ideal but not long lasting, the other is great for feeding nature.


    Maybe you think organic farming is bad. Look, both you and I agree that it is unfortunate that people have to eat, but given it is I think it should be done in a way that minimizes damage to nature and even helps at times.


    We'll agree to disagree.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    You were right.


    He had his rights but he also had a responsibility to not be a nuisance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Its min of 30 metres now but my friend intends not to have big trees closer than 50 metres and anything closer will be smaller species...

    The neighbors were asked for advise... if they wanted to use they could have had it for going rate.. no suggestions but objections when the sign went up...

    Two of the people who object has their houses with rubbish trees beside but objected to trees that will be more than 100 metres away...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Your wrong slurry is completely unsuitable for organics and FYM cannot be fresh...

    Your right they had no respect for the land as other person property... so my friend has a solution...

    I am not confused at all as its a well known fact that heavy machinery will compact soil...

    I know a bit about the rental market (not land) i have never had a problem...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    Please please please stop digging, slurry and fym are two of the very limited fertility options for organic farmers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Worms will not like in slurry so forget about that one... i think organic farming is good... i never heard of an organic farmer having slurry tank for animal..

    The damage was principally done by machinery on land at wrong time of year... leading to dirt being brought on to busy public road...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I am curious as to what you are saying by "FYM cannot be fresh".

    It is decomposing organic matter. It isn't supposed to be "fresh". You're not eating it for your tea. You might be aware of the material that is used that comes from sewage treatment plants and is often used around cities? That has to be left for a certain number of months to break down the bacteria and disease in it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Organic farmers have to use a certain amount of straw bedded sheds in order to be certified. They can have a certain amount of slats etc. but it is limited. Regardless, even if 100% straw bedded, they will need a slurry tank to collect any slurry from yards or feeding passages (and other run off from soiled areas). What do you think they are doing with it if not collecting it - letting it run into the river?


    Worms do prefer FYM over slurry. But I pointed that out in my first post on that topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Fresh FYM and slurry does not contain oxygen which is essential in organics... ideally the FYM be from previous year but a minimun of 6 months we were advised on the course...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    FYM should be left for a good while alright. But that is to do with breakdown of the matter - particularly the straw.

    Slurry should be left for 6 weeks but that is for pathogens to die off.

    What I still don't understand is why you think that it is a problem that it can't be applied "fresh"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭green daries


    Jesus wept .... I'm afraid you are wrong again my friend



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    So there was no damage done but a bit of mud on the road. Lol. I presume you are making it up now.

    You have never heard of an organic farmer having a slurry tank.

    I'll have to tell my organic neighbours they are doing it wrong, might be a problem for one, given he has been at it 27 years and gives talks and advise to organic farmers across the 32 counties.


    I can visibly see the difference,the massive increase in worms in my silage ground compared to other fields. Is it ideal, 100%, no but it's still natural and working with nature.


    Look I'm as about as nature friendly a farm as you can get but you need to leave the dogma aside.


    I've never been a fan of organized religion, yours or others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I never said anything i said was correct but it is what we were taught on the course... i did keep a garden for about 5 years and noticed when i be collecting FYM from friend that old stuff have worms and fresh stuff not...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I just wasn't sure whether you were saying it was a problem that it can't be used fresh, or was a problem that it shouldn't be used fresh or what it was.

    The worms won't really have had a chance to "colonise" the fresh dung you are collecting. It will be a better habitat for them as it breaks down. But when it is spread on the land, it isn't concentrated as in a big heap of just dung. So the worms are already present in the soil and they will love the additional organic matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I have pics of the damage as the land owner has not camera phone and he wanted record for auctioneer to break the contract which was done immediately when pics produced...

    Seems like you have no problem with farmer bringing mud on to road which tells me a lot..

    I can post tomorrow as on an old phone...

    Personally i think you more religious about this than me... i am having a bit of fun passing the time...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Just be forewarned that you might not get response on here that you might expect. I don't know - the damage might indeed be terrible. But what might seem terrible to you might just seem to people on here as maybe a bit careless and sure nothing a quick run of a disc or chain harrow won't sort out next Spring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    TREES is the solution... my friend does not have the equipment and the people who have have disrespected his property...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Your buddy likely doesn't have the equipment to manage the trees either. He can get it and learn. If it is only a small area, it will cost him a lot relatively speaking to get contractors in to do anything for him so he might have to get up to speed pretty quickly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Its all in place... just awaiting license and need to buy i item that will cost about €1,000+...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    About 40 m from the house a couple planted 30 acres which would be better than the land I'm farming and built a house on it, they figured out after finishing the house they didn't want to live in it and it's left now. Other side of the farm another 30 acres was planted which was easily accessible for our cows. Both have devalued their assets by at least a half, while one has practically devalued completely their asset.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    When cattle drop it in the field it's not fresh?


    It's stuff like this that does so much damage to Green movements, just even in those of us who are very conscientious about the environment and will take a big hit financially to do that.


    Arguing over the minutiae of adding organic matter to the soil.


    Meanwhile hop over to the next thread and talk up the vital need to lock carbon in the soil and the importance of organic matter in soil but never join the dots.

    All manure needs to break down, fresh or old, they feed the same worms, Just because you see it in one, doesn't mean that the worms don't eat the other shortly after.



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