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Ending of the Common Agricultural Policy.

  • 17-05-2021 9:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,516 ✭✭✭ Say my name


    I was just thinking of all that's happening on Twitterland and probably facebook.

    You see these college educated so's in environmental science appearing now on social media and running down farmland.
    They're running it down while themselves may have no land or a few acres.
    I've no doubt some are being paid to do this and it's part of a wider movement facilitated by social media. Keeping one another going.

    I know their spiel. And Greta Thunberg did it too attacking the CAP.

    Isn't it really terrible though how they view food production as a sin.
    Isn't it even worse that they want the CAP to not go to food producers but themselves and "wild" areas.

    I'm not saying biodiversity shouldn't be encouraged but not to go to the other extreme and have food production discouraged.

    Anyway just something that has become apparent to me very recently.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    I'd rather have no CAP and control of my own land.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,516 ✭✭✭ Say my name


    I'd rather have no CAP and control of my own land.

    And now everyone else gets it and you've still no control..:p

    I hear ya!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,156 ✭✭✭ alps


    I'd rather have no CAP and control of my own land.

    They'll have your CAP and still want to control your land. They've a fixation against farm and food production.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭ Barktastic


    Lets be honest, the CAP should be focused at active farmers involved in eco responsible practices.

    These armchair farmers drawing money or even worse guys renting out land and getting tax free money is a joke, would annoy anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭ duffysfarm


    True, i would too but the powers that be have made farming dependant on support snd subsidys so you cant just take it away and expect it to have no impact
    I'd rather have no CAP and control of my own land.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    duffysfarm wrote: »
    you cant just take it away and expect it to have no impact

    Of course there would be an impact. I believe we'd better our own position moving away from being solely a primary industry and start moving towards being actual business capturing that margin we're so good at complaining that others make. It wouldn't be easy but I think it would be a significantly more positive position to be in. Our dependence, addiction, to CAP is the biggest problem we have. It makes us such an easy target for anyone with an agenda, "You get public money......."

    And yes, lots of other sectors get public money too in other ways, but no one gives a sh1t when that's offered as a counter argument.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    alps wrote: »
    They'll have your CAP and still want to control your land. They've a fixation against farm and food production.

    I agree. However without such a dependence on CAP it makes us as individuals harder to manipulate. No tap to turn on and off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭ Siamsa Sessions


    I think part of the issue is that those so-called environmental experts are not happy with the modern world. And in fairness, it ain't exactly a nice place at times.

    But they are taking aim at an easy, very visual target. It's simple to portray farmers as the pantomime villains who are destroying the environment just to make themselves even more rich. It's hard to develop an understanding of how the industrial revolution (and the agricultural revolution before that) changed how society functions. It's also hard to see the geo-political impact of what CAP does. And that's ever before you look at globalisation and the concentration of power into smaller and smaller groups of business/political entities.

    Much easier to say farmers spread slurry into rivers and cram little cute baby calves into cages on ships.

    The judge in the Glanbia/An Taisce case summed it up well. He said An Taisce's beef (pardon the pun) was with Government policy, not the new cheese plant. Did they lobby Government TDs or stand for election themselves? No, they took the easy option and found what's essentially a loophole that allows them to exploit the letter of the law, rather than live by the spirit of the law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,586 ✭✭✭ Markcheese


    My usual line is if you want to make farming more environmentaly friendly ,make it more worth a farmers while to farm that way - and less worth his while to farm another .. but those changes will take time -
    The optic of farming isn't always great though - and putting effort into giving out about your detractors is rarely worth the effort -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭ MIKEKC


    I'd rather have no CAP and control of my own land.
    The vast majority would be out of business if that happened. Most beef and sheep farms eat into payments to keep going


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    MIKEKC wrote: »
    The vast majority would be out of business if that happened. Most beef and sheep farms eat into payments to keep going

    We don't appear to be "in business" in the first instance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,348 ✭✭✭ Waffletraktor


    Well sold, is better then better grown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    as an outsider but who lives in rural Ireland and who worked on a big farm down under years ago , i think the CAP is as safe as houses , getting rid of CAP would suit those who want a post 1984 New Zealand style factory farming model but that idea is becoming less admired

    the thinking of late is far less capitalist , as bone headed as they are , the Green party want to preserve the small family farm and this is the case across Europe , there is definately a push back against the American style expand expand expand approach

    as such state subsidies are here to stay in agriculture though enviromental policies will be a much bigger feature , even the Green party are wiped out here at the next election , Green policies are here to stay


  • Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭ MIKEKC


    We don't appear to be "in business" in the first instance.

    Probably not but we are continuing to live from our farming enterprise..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    MIKEKC wrote: »
    Probably not but we are continuing to live from our farming enterprise..

    Only by kowtowing to the agendas of politicians, lobby groups, and civil servants. We are too exposed, and easily and effectively attacked through threats against CAP. Rules and regulations are increasing at pace, the pie is ever diminishing through external convergence, PESCO, changing want's of the EU, while retooling of existing monies puts cost along with them (eco scheme etc.) And if you don't like it, no scheme for you!

    I don't like it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭ kk.man


    I have no issue with CAP going but Europeans are going to have to pay more for food which I don't see. Money from Europe in the future will be environmental schemes which will probably reduce the forage area of Europe which in turn will reduce the amount of livestock and tillage thus increase the price of the commodities by default.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    kk.man wrote: »
    I have no issue with CAP going but Europeans are going to have to pay more for food which I don't see. Money from Europe in the future will be environmental schemes which will probably reduce the forage area of Europe which in turn will reduce the amount of livestock and tillage thus increase the price of the commodities by default.

    Maize has gone to 300 euros a ton on spot market and soybean over 500, a short sharp shock to the system re food prices climbing might focus a good few minds, dairy beef etc are going to have to climb pretty significantly once autumn/winter sets in as the price of producing them will be sky high, no farmer will be able to carry the can re grain prices and only getting 4 euro a kilo beef/34 cent a litre milk


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,908 ✭✭✭ Birdnuts


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Maize has gone to 300 euros a ton on spot market and soybean over 500, a short sharp shock to the system re food prices climbing might focus a good few minds, dairy beef etc are going to have to climb pretty significantly once autumn/winter sets in as the price of producing them will be sky high, no farmer will be able to carry the can re grain prices and only getting 4 euro a kilo beef/34 cent a litre milk

    Agri commodity prices are closely linked to oil prices that have increased sharply on the back of production cuts in Saudi etc. Intensive farming systems are most exposed as they require the most inputs. Add in the amount of money printing going on around the world then you have the makings of an inflationary bubble coming down the tracks


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭ herdquitter


    There's one thing I'd agree with in there, there aren't enough options in the Eco schemes.

    Like environmentalists and others, that mans biggest problem is the word "our". Our hills, our bogs, our money, all the same type of flawed thinking.

    Thought the Minister handled it well.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Journalists see them as the only farm organisation that are working for farming/ farmers.

    An organisation that punches way above its weight unlike the rest

    You're only shooting yourself and every farmer in the foot with your comments



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Farmers are entitled to protest against the changes, even if it is only 100 farmers doing it.

    As an organisation they've decided to oppose them,

    We opposed them in 2013 and it definitely lessened the cut's massively on farmers like myself that worked hard up to and through the reference years.

    They weren't out thought by anyone, it's just that the reference years are less relevent now.

    It was nice to have sooooo much for 20 years

    We had plenty like you against us in 2012, but the joke was on them in the end

    Post edited by wrangler on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    Re your last line, I think Beef Plan tried that in 2019 🤣🤣😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭ Jjameson


    And time has shown that they were correct, and the IFA leadership were a disgrace. They agreed with meat industry reps publicly that the “market” that couldn’t return more than €3.57 for underage R grade beef. It is now returning €4.40 a kg from the same consumers.

    and I can’t stress” IFA Leadership” enough because the farmer members were at the gates. Myself and and around 46 I just counted up on paper that are family and close neighbours never attended a beef plan meeting. most of us are ifa members. (And several who wound up with a day trip to the high court were glad of the support of the ifa)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭ Jjameson


    The leadership have decided to oppose them and the few got under them in the pyramid support in hope of getting a plum job for loyalty but if you think it’s got grass roots support then it just shows how disjointed leadership has become. Government is listening to the majority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    You're starting to sound like IFA now.... don't for one moment believe that what happened 2 years ago made any difference to the price now.

    markets always have gone up and down..... look at the lamb trade and there was no idiotic protests



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler


    If you were ever on any of the national commitees you'd know that unless the commitees passed it as policy it wouldn't be lobbied for.

    Whats happening is those concerned about their future happen to be on commitees and are opposing it. those members opposing IFA have let it happen by lack of involvement and maybe laziness. If I was there I'd be opposing it too and I certainly wouldn't be looking for a job...... the opposite in fact. I never wanted to be taking jobs that no one else would do.

    Between the main commitees(beef dairy and sheep) there could be 250 + probably mostly better farmers deciding policy, you'd want to be a bit sad if you thought you'd get a plum job out of any of the work you'd be doing.

    Make no mistake it's all thankless work, it's just that anything to do with CAP reform is more thankless than the rest



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    Really good article in the FI today. Some tough love from Darragh McCollough for commercial farmers and those complaining about the redistribution of payments.

    one or two interesting things to note. Greening is not only flat rated it is also decoupled from BPS. If you fill out a Area aid form and carry out your eco practices you will receive the eco payment accross all the hectares put in to Area aid.

    If a farmers opt for eco payment it will be 63/HA. However assuming only 85% claim payment will be 75/HA.

    It means BPS value will fall sharply, average payment will be sub 200/unit. With higher units values converging to that 300-350/unit will be tops value wise. Even leasing value will be impacted. As Eco will now be decoupled from your BPS unit leasing/sale value will be impacted

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,043 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy


    Lenin reportedly said 'the worse, the better".


    I feel that way about things now, COVID has brought a lot of problems to a head.


    Relying on Just in Time manufacturing and outsourcing jobs and factories all to Asia has really hit Europe and America hard.


    Handing over energy security and supply to Russia has hit Western Europe very hard.


    Both play into fertilizer shortages, which will show the world that food production is more essential than iPhone production etc.

    That many industries are actually nationally strategic and shouldn't be in opponents hands.

    That some things are bigger than the bottom line and need planning for regardless of the short term market gain.



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