Ending of the Common Agricultural Policy.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093099#Comment_118093099

Depending on where you are in the country, the day after planting all those trees, your buddy's meadow might be worth 20% what it was worth the day before he planted it..........agroforestry might not be quite as bad as planting the lot but I'd say it would still result in a fair drop

As for saying that slurry is bad for land ................

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095261#Comment_118095261

I assume you referring to Government and Farm organizations as the lunatics..

My friend knows exactly what he doing... ie protecting his property as when it was entrusted to others it was damaged...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095522#Comment_118095522

I do not know if it will effect value as limited knowledge but that's nothing to do with what is going on in this instance...

Why would trees effect the value of meadow in another field... i see this everywhere as i travel... pine i expect have an effect but why would broadleaf?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095278#Comment_118095278

You should have a look at what is written about this...

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094455#Comment_118094455

I think you've been reading too much anti farming bs but it seems your not the only one

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094455#Comment_118094455

A normal slurry application is four pints to a square yard and slurrry is 80% water. how bad can it be

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095685#Comment_118095685

No your buddy's meadow will be worth a lot less when it has trees on it. I'm not talking about his neighbours. He might want to take that into account if he thinks he is doing a clever thing to piss off the neighbours 😁

He might have a meadow which he could sell tomorrow for 150k. (Assume 10 acres of good land at 15k per acre....again depends on where you are) He can then go through the rigmarole of getting permission, planting trees on it, then try to sell it and find that he now will only get offered maybe 3-3.5k an acre for it. He might not be aware of that. It would not be as big of an issue if the land is not good land to begin with (say 8k an acre down to the 3-3.5k).

Planting trees on land is now (almost exclusively) and one-way permanent decision. Don't be planning to plant the trees and harvest them in 30 years and then plough up the field again. Based on current conditions, you wouldn't be allowed to do that. not that you are goign to be harvesting in 30 years for broadleaves (bar thinnings)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095696#Comment_118095696

Slurry is actually full of nutrients and organic matter which is good for soil structure and things like earthworms. (It is not as good for the latter as FYM but still not bad).

Slurry is the ultimate example of recycling!!!!!!!!!! You are putting nutrients back into the soil which the animal took out of it through what it ate from it.

Don't believe the typical facebook shite (no pun intended) you might see where some eejit thinks "oh that is yucky and smelly so it can't be good for land"

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095743#Comment_118095743

The little bit i know came from an Environmental officer which was a few years ago... i have no interest in farming or how its done... i just mentioned the trees as the people who had the land did not look after... i mentioned it here before months ago...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095819#Comment_118095819

I actually know that's incorrect as i did a course in horticulture some years ago....

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095788#Comment_118095788

He doesn't care about the money as the land is about privacy... he tried to play with the farmers for 10 years and it didn't work... he also knows it is a forever thing....

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095854#Comment_118095854

I'd be interested to have some links on that. I have my old Teagasc green cert workbooks somewhere here plus any other reputable source (and years of practical experience) which suggest the opposite.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095875#Comment_118095875

That's 100% up to him. Fair play to him for taking the financial hit on it. He is entitled to do that. I was only pointing it out in case he was unknowingly taking it. If he knows the implications then all good

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095854#Comment_118095854

🙈🙄

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095875#Comment_118095875

A neighbour sowed poplars within 20mtrs of my back door, I thought it was a **** thing to do andwhen they got to 60ft I harassed him enough to take them down.

I know that legally people can do that but morally it is so wrong so tell your friend to be considerate of neighbours if they're near

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095898#Comment_118095898

I think that nowadays there are some restrictions on how close you can plant without getting explicit permission. And you have to basically get planning permission to plant now so they can't just stick them into the ground and hope you don't notice until it is too late!

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095916#Comment_118095916

Good, trees are horrible near houses

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095884#Comment_118095884

The people who damaged my friends property had the said "green cert" do you want me to post pics of the damage here...

The course was a few years ago and i likely have dumped the notes... I do remember it being said the weight of the machinery not allowing oxygen into the soil... it also mentioned the intensity of slurry and fertilizer ...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095925#Comment_118095925

I am surprised as horticulture (as in veg) lads would be mad for FYM. Or slurry if they can get it. There is a thing that they would sometimes do called "green manure" where they grow a crop specifically to plough it into the ground because the organic matter helps to improve the soil structure. They do that because they usually don't have access to organic matter from FYM/manure and the soil needs it after years of veg being grown in it and nutrients taken away in those veg. Another factor would be the types of soil which favour veg tend to be sandier soils top begin with which don't hold on to nutrients without that organic matter.

Mixing up weight of machinery with slurry is confusing you. There are methods of application which reduce soil compaction. It has nothing to do with an inherent property of slurry itself.

The lads who left your buddy's field in bits may have done so simply because it wasn't their own. The same idea behind the concept that someone who might take good care of their own house might more or less trash a rented one. And what you see as "in bits" might just have been then being careless and taking the piss in terms of leaving cattle on it a bit too long and poaching or leaving tracks in it. Which you can get in trouble for nowadays.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095925#Comment_118095925

How did they damage it?

The weight of the machinery can cause compaction, the intensity of the slurry can lead to an explosion in microbial life, earthworms etc.

The first is not Ideal but not long lasting, the other is great for feeding nature.

Maybe you think organic farming is bad. Look, both you and I agree that it is unfortunate that people have to eat, but given it is I think it should be done in a way that minimizes damage to nature and even helps at times.

We'll agree to disagree.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095898#Comment_118095898

You were right.

He had his rights but he also had a responsibility to not be a nuisance.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095898#Comment_118095898

Its min of 30 metres now but my friend intends not to have big trees closer than 50 metres and anything closer will be smaller species...

The neighbors were asked for advise... if they wanted to use they could have had it for going rate.. no suggestions but objections when the sign went up...

Two of the people who object has their houses with rubbish trees beside but objected to trees that will be more than 100 metres away...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095936#Comment_118095936

Your wrong slurry is completely unsuitable for organics and FYM cannot be fresh...

Your right they had no respect for the land as other person property... so my friend has a solution...

I am not confused at all as its a well known fact that heavy machinery will compact soil...

I know a bit about the rental market (not land) i have never had a problem...

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095995#Comment_118095995

Please please please stop digging, slurry and fym are two of the very limited fertility options for organic farmers.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095944#Comment_118095944

Worms will not like in slurry so forget about that one... i think organic farming is good... i never heard of an organic farmer having slurry tank for animal..

The damage was principally done by machinery on land at wrong time of year... leading to dirt being brought on to busy public road...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095995#Comment_118095995

I am curious as to what you are saying by "FYM cannot be fresh".

It is decomposing organic matter. It isn't supposed to be "fresh". You're not eating it for your tea. You might be aware of the material that is used that comes from sewage treatment plants and is often used around cities? That has to be left for a certain number of months to break down the bacteria and disease in it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096033#Comment_118096033

Organic farmers have to use a certain amount of straw bedded sheds in order to be certified. They can have a certain amount of slats etc. but it is limited. Regardless, even if 100% straw bedded, they will need a slurry tank to collect any slurry from yards or feeding passages (and other run off from soiled areas). What do you think they are doing with it if not collecting it - letting it run into the river?

Worms do prefer FYM over slurry. But I pointed that out in my first post on that topic.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096041#Comment_118096041

Fresh FYM and slurry does not contain oxygen which is essential in organics... ideally the FYM be from previous year but a minimun of 6 months we were advised on the course...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096060#Comment_118096060

FYM should be left for a good while alright. But that is to do with breakdown of the matter - particularly the straw.

Slurry should be left for 6 weeks but that is for pathogens to die off.

What I still don't understand is why you think that it is a problem that it can't be applied "fresh"?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095854#Comment_118095854

Jesus wept .... I'm afraid you are wrong again my friend

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096033#Comment_118096033

So there was no damage done but a bit of mud on the road. Lol. I presume you are making it up now.

You have never heard of an organic farmer having a slurry tank.

I'll have to tell my organic neighbours they are doing it wrong, might be a problem for one, given he has been at it 27 years and gives talks and advise to organic farmers across the 32 counties.

I can visibly see the difference,the massive increase in worms in my silage ground compared to other fields. Is it ideal, 100%, no but it's still natural and working with nature.

Look I'm as about as nature friendly a farm as you can get but you need to leave the dogma aside.

I've never been a fan of organized religion, yours or others.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096072#Comment_118096072

I never said anything i said was correct but it is what we were taught on the course... i did keep a garden for about 5 years and noticed when i be collecting FYM from friend that old stuff have worms and fresh stuff not...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096098#Comment_118096098

I just wasn't sure whether you were saying it was a problem that it can't be used fresh, or was a problem that it shouldn't be used fresh or what it was.

The worms won't really have had a chance to "colonise" the fresh dung you are collecting. It will be a better habitat for them as it breaks down. But when it is spread on the land, it isn't concentrated as in a big heap of just dung. So the worms are already present in the soil and they will love the additional organic matter.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096097#Comment_118096097

I have pics of the damage as the land owner has not camera phone and he wanted record for auctioneer to break the contract which was done immediately when pics produced...

Seems like you have no problem with farmer bringing mud on to road which tells me a lot..

I can post tomorrow as on an old phone...

Personally i think you more religious about this than me... i am having a bit of fun passing the time...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096112#Comment_118096112

Just be forewarned that you might not get response on here that you might expect. I don't know - the damage might indeed be terrible. But what might seem terrible to you might just seem to people on here as maybe a bit careless and sure nothing a quick run of a disc or chain harrow won't sort out next Spring.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096129#Comment_118096129

TREES is the solution... my friend does not have the equipment and the people who have have disrespected his property...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096159#Comment_118096159

Your buddy likely doesn't have the equipment to manage the trees either. He can get it and learn. If it is only a small area, it will cost him a lot relatively speaking to get contractors in to do anything for him so he might have to get up to speed pretty quickly

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096169#Comment_118096169

Its all in place... just awaiting license and need to buy i item that will cost about €1,000+...

kevthegaff

About 40 m from the house a couple planted 30 acres which would be better than the land I'm farming and built a house on it, they figured out after finishing the house they didn't want to live in it and it's left now. Other side of the farm another 30 acres was planted which was easily accessible for our cows. Both have devalued their assets by at least a half, while one has practically devalued completely their asset.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096072#Comment_118096072

When cattle drop it in the field it's not fresh?

It's stuff like this that does so much damage to Green movements, just even in those of us who are very conscientious about the environment and will take a big hit financially to do that.

Arguing over the minutiae of adding organic matter to the soil.

Meanwhile hop over to the next thread and talk up the vital need to lock carbon in the soil and the importance of organic matter in soil but never join the dots.

All manure needs to break down, fresh or old, they feed the same worms, Just because you see it in one, doesn't mean that the worms don't eat the other shortly after.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096193#Comment_118096193

I was just explaining to him what he likely read and misinterpreted. If you have a slurry tank full of slurry you might as well leave it for the few weeks. It's not really relevant to the discussion on earthworms. It would be in case there are pathogens that other cattle would pick up.

Similarly, for the FYM, the worms don't care that it is fresh. It will be better though for management of the land to have it already somewhat broken down before spreading. If it is fresh in a heap out of the shed then the worms just won't have "moved in" yet.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096112#Comment_118096112

Look they left shi7 on the road and should have brushed it off, but the fact that they were spreading slurry on it shows they were putting back in.

I've seen enough mud and shi7 this year alone. No need, thanks though.

Did your friend grow up in an urban environment, the more aloof side of town at that.

Are they just more perturbed by the reality of nature, rural life, and organic matter, the proles with dirt on the hand.

Hard to tell.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096072#Comment_118096072

Rotting FYM interferes with nitrogen levels in the soil, Any recommendations you see regarding FYM is usually for well rotted FYM for that reason

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096232#Comment_118096232

Yeah, breaking down the straw can actually waste nitrogen. I wasn't going into too much details to explain because I just wanted to get across that it wasn't because for the worms benefit that it was being left. They wouldn't care

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095925#Comment_118095925

Horse **** my good friend your full of it no ordinary horticulture course would spend time running down another enterprise without a dubious motive

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096112#Comment_118096112

Yes yes I'm an Algerian prince I am willing to invest huge sums into your garden send me your bank details 🙄🙄🙄🙄

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096192#Comment_118096192

Now that would be some pain in the nuts keV I would crack up

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096491#Comment_118096491

Planning permission is advertised on a paper up the country so that locals don't object. Secondly the two people that planted don't live anywhere near it. They were very ill advised, now are going mad as guys are letting horses into their land now as its known their not around. Eventually making their way into the land here, I've had a few run in s with the horsey guys who are if a special breed

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096192#Comment_118096192

I am curious to know why you think the property will be devalued... what type of trees are there...

We think this project will enhance the piece of ground and likely add value to the property as there is a really good house on it....

This idea of planting is not set in stone and if someone came along and said they wanted to farm it in a kindof traditional manner it would not happen...

This year for example there was silage taken 2 times... sheep now...

I know i am making points in favor of planting but we are really also looking at any alternative before planting takes place...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096487#Comment_118096487

I expect you head in the same trough as the people who did the damage... i have enough friends but thanks for the offer...

The course did not run-down the industry as you say and stated that the solution going forward was less meat... there was no motive... just a different way of doing which i not have any opinion on as i eat the meat farmers produce...

I know from personal experience we are are unsustainable in this country as we produce alot more expensive meat that quite alot of our population can hardly afford so we export excess... Our veg production is pretty limited as i think most imported...

So someone here will likely know... but for me it seems like 90% of our meat is exported and 90% of our veg is imported...

My friend would rather not plant trees but the people her has been dealing with have an "attitude" just like your goodself...