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Ending of the Common Agricultural Policy.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    CAP shod be treated as an income support not as a production support. Farmers that have has large payments have had 18 years to reposition there business. A lot of these larger payments if they are not holding onto it as profit are only siphoning it back to machinery dealerships, merchants and millers. If you cannot produce it at a profit let someone else at it.

    Producing for the sake of production impoverishes other farmers

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    as far as i make out 2 out 3 are actually in big financial difficulty so they definitley are not set up for this by the looks of it, but i really dont know. get the feeling a lot of tillage men that are at it in a big way from 1970s will scale back or pull the plug over the next few years around here anyway. what effect will this have on land rental prices? woudnt be big dairy ground here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭DBK1


    Any man that’s being given €60,000 a year, every year, to support his business and says he still can’t make it pay shouldn’t be in that business in the first place.

    On top of that any man that was handed €230,000 a year for the last almost 20 years, that now claims can’t make his business pay when that’s reduced to €60,000, should never have been allowed into that business in the first place as he must never have had the required knowledge, organisation or skills to run it. The biggest problem CAP created with big payments like that was keeping poor operators going in a business they were never fit to be in all along.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,543 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    One of my tenants has about thirty tractors and has branched away from agri work a bit, it looks like the way to go. A couple friends work for him on the agri side and claim that there's some mornings you wouldn't get a tractor in the yard..... the non agri side is so busy.

    I'm sure if the profit is taken out of tillage he'll just rethink his operation.

    The other big tillage operator here is developing his third 500 cow dairy herd



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fischler said exactly that, the SFP was the income for the farmer, the farm paid for itself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    yeah not too many keen to go into cows here even though both farms ithout the rented ground they take would be big dairy farms if they wanted , all in one block both.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If he had 230k from the start that is 4.6 million over 20 years. Take 50k/ year out for income support. 3.5 million over that time would have bought you at least 200 acres of land. If he had 150 acres of his own he would have 350 acres, even at drystock with a 60 k capped payment you make a really decent living from that amount of land

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Worth noting that for 3.5mn in cash invested you'd want more than a really decent living.



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Get rid of it, I'm in beef and I just give it away in tax.

    Mind you, I spend very little only on labour efficiency.

    Spend the money on grants for new farming ideas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,576 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I am giving the example where he wanted to remain in farming. Like I posted that option would have secured his future whether he decided to remain in Tillage, Drystock would be the lowest profit operation, but if he opted for dairying on even a 2-300 acre farm he would turn a huge margin

    At that scale you go into a company setup. I be surprised if a tillage farmer and that size operation he was not incorporated anyway. You have dairy farmers with only 100 cows going for a company setup.

    He also had the option over the last twenty years to diversify outside of farming.

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    i know little about farming but i think i should post what i see.

    Person has just small parcel of meadow land for privacy around house, let to 3 different farmers over a period of 10 years and none of them looked after it so he decided to go in new direction.

    Decides to plant native IRISH trees and at the moment the application is being processed... The farmers each side who spread slurry every year both objected, they also cavessed other neighbours to object including an elderly neighbor (80+) who is related to one of the families 5 objections in total.

    It looks like that license be granted...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,702 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    TBH if a neighbour applied for permission to plant native forest along any of our boundaries I would object too. I've seen the destruction to grassland that shading (from sunlight) causes with both deciduous and evergreen trees. There is also a acute risk of acorn poisoning to livestock.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The person is actually pleased they objected as these people are putting out slurry every year which is causing damage, they never cared that this piece of land was getting damage but when it went in a direction that not in keeping with the thinking lodged objection. now if the license is granted he can go ahead as if he was approached with solution from a farmer would not have applied for planting...

    Its surprising that the farming groups cannot stop this if acorns from trees is killing animals... This is Government led scheme so it seems surprise they promote this as the land will still have animals with the trees...

    Are you sure of your facts about acorns...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,702 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    What do you mean when you said the farmers were causing damage when spreading slurry.

    Plants that cause livestock poisoning -https://www.nadis.org.uk/disease-a-z/cattle/plant-poisoning-in-cattle/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Well luckily acorns don't fall far from the trees , plus it'd be a long time before the oaks would be big enough to shed acorns over the hedge - it's a valid concern though ,and easy to remedy in mixed planting - just plant a row or 2 of some other tree type on the bounds ditch ..

    If there's lots of tanins in acorns I assume they're quite bitter - would the cattle have to be quite hungry to eat a lot of them ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I think its pretty well known that slurry damages farmland if it has slurry every year... also sometimes it can leech into watercourses... I suppose it really depends on the farmer....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I be surprised if cattle eat them but i suppose if no other food anything possible... i also think the Government and the farm organizations be promoting agroforestry if it was causing ill-health to animals... This plan is to have animals and cattle/sheep sharing the land....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,702 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    IMO it is more evidence that the lunatics are running the asylum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,109 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,952 ✭✭✭White Clover


    The quote "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" comes to mind.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Depending on where you are in the country, the day after planting all those trees, your buddy's meadow might be worth 20% what it was worth the day before he planted it..........agroforestry might not be quite as bad as planting the lot but I'd say it would still result in a fair drop


    As for saying that slurry is bad for land ................



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I assume you referring to Government and Farm organizations as the lunatics..

    My friend knows exactly what he doing... ie protecting his property as when it was entrusted to others it was damaged...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I do not know if it will effect value as limited knowledge but that's nothing to do with what is going on in this instance...

    Why would trees effect the value of meadow in another field... i see this everywhere as i travel... pine i expect have an effect but why would broadleaf?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    You should have a look at what is written about this...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,886 ✭✭✭green daries


    I think you've been reading too much anti farming bs but it seems your not the only one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,543 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    A normal slurry application is four pints to a square yard and slurrry is 80% water. how bad can it be



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    No your buddy's meadow will be worth a lot less when it has trees on it. I'm not talking about his neighbours. He might want to take that into account if he thinks he is doing a clever thing to piss off the neighbours 😁

    He might have a meadow which he could sell tomorrow for 150k. (Assume 10 acres of good land at 15k per acre....again depends on where you are) He can then go through the rigmarole of getting permission, planting trees on it, then try to sell it and find that he now will only get offered maybe 3-3.5k an acre for it. He might not be aware of that. It would not be as big of an issue if the land is not good land to begin with (say 8k an acre down to the 3-3.5k).

    Planting trees on land is now (almost exclusively) and one-way permanent decision. Don't be planning to plant the trees and harvest them in 30 years and then plough up the field again. Based on current conditions, you wouldn't be allowed to do that. not that you are goign to be harvesting in 30 years for broadleaves (bar thinnings)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Slurry is actually full of nutrients and organic matter which is good for soil structure and things like earthworms. (It is not as good for the latter as FYM but still not bad).

    Slurry is the ultimate example of recycling!!!!!!!!!! You are putting nutrients back into the soil which the animal took out of it through what it ate from it.

    Don't believe the typical facebook shite (no pun intended) you might see where some eejit thinks "oh that is yucky and smelly so it can't be good for land"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    The little bit i know came from an Environmental officer which was a few years ago... i have no interest in farming or how its done... i just mentioned the trees as the people who had the land did not look after... i mentioned it here before months ago...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,425 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I actually know that's incorrect as i did a course in horticulture some years ago....



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