New handicap system

Initially it was that that lot of higher handicap golfers were winning all the prizes but that has levelled off significantly as the year has gone on and lower handicaps have just as much chance of winning comps as higher. Now of course, a higher handicap is still more likely to have a monster score than a lower, but that's just because of variance. In general, the lower more consistent golfers are showing up in prizes now more often than not.

Handicaps always posted in our club. You must have a lot of cribby bustards in your club if the competitions committee can't even include handicaps anymore. All that does is give higher handicappers a place to hide. It's only right that someone should be publicly mortified for beating their handicap by 20 shots. Comes with the territory.

That's what you get with high handicappers, we're wildly inconsistent! I'm off 24 as well. I have parred every hole at my club plenty of times, and birdied most of them. If I averaged a birdie on every hole in one round, I'd have 42 points, which would get me in the prizes. Realistically, all that would take would be a 'flow ' day, particularly with the putter. It will probably never happen, but it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. What's a certainty is that I wouldn't repeat it anytime soon. Does the possibility of this happening mean that I should be off 14 instead? Or that I'm a bandit?

CONGU as a name is only in place since the 1960s. But the handicap system has changed radically over the 95 years handicapping has been in place. Even the different countries had different variations. Ireland was the only country with the 1 stroke upward limit on handicaps. The other countries had higher limits.

Even the 54 handicap that people are attributing to WHS came into force under CONGU.

I meant par! Doh.

I think the new system is good - as it corrects incorrect handicaps quicker. I struggled under the old system for years on a handicap I couldn't play to. The main objection I would have - is if we are going to have such high handicaps - we need to place re-emphasis on category golf - I know in matchplay etc these things could come into play anyway - but the overall prize and overall medal is actually pointless with such high handicaps.

Whilst it is excellent to have a whs and enable you to play with other golfers all over the world - the problem we have in Ireland (and this is a great thing about our golf) - we take competition fairly serious . A big problem for Golf Ireland is that the guys who play week in week out , have suddenly had their reason to play golf - their competitive nature completely taken away. The player of the year and medals are taken very serious in my club. People might laugh at these guys "thinking they are going on tour" - but they are key stakeholders who are 365 day golfer - life long golfers - people who spend money on the game and at the club - life long family members.

If we are going to keep the system (which of course we are) . I'd recommend no overall competitions at all. Or if you must have one. A boundary, something like..........

Sorry to say, a handicap limit of the old system ? or some other local agreed number. I'd love say something lower - but to be somewhat inclusive - 27 or lower.

People give out to me saying I take it too serious - but I genuinely enter every comp trying to win - and in the old system whilst I rarely did - I genuinely felt I had a chance. These handicaps are stupid in this context.

The interim solution they had a couple of years ago was limiting a handicap for away opens if i remember correctly. When they first went above 28 for men, you could only play off higher than 28 in your home club and were capped to 28 away.

Could introduce similar, a capped competition and uncapped casual handicap?

I've a society - and to be inclusive years ago - I put the max out to 36 , it was kind of radical and comical at the time. It was clear that the guys who did not play golf - or even want to, were not competing off 36. After a few years , I asked them do they want me to increase the 36. Typically Irish - and the brilliant competitive spirit that we have - the 36 guys all said - that would be joke, if the guys who literally don't play golf or can't play golf or wont practice can win. They said - they like the target to try win and to try get to 36. After about 6 years - one of them won the event.

I think the new system stems from a different culture of competitiveness - of equality - it makes sense in an inclusive context. Also perhaps people expect to be equal and compete straight away - modern society seems to have lost respect for a right of passage. Golf is so hard - it takes years. But this system does reduce that time aspect.

Perhaps that is a good thing - but I'm a little too old school - excellence takes time and effort , true excellence something even more. This system is dumbing down that aspect - a guy I was reading about had 2 out of 3 medals and won golfer of the year with one of these WHS handicaps. Call me old school - but something inside me dies a little when I hear that.

But the problem is , locally it is a bad fit (IMO).

Anyway - I'm only interested in gross score anyway - so , I'll stick to that.

I guess the point is - guys floating in this area can rise very quick - use casual rounds and be all set for the big club events.

Because 18 is a fairly well established gold reference standard.

Isn't a club golfer who would have genuine issues with anybody off 18.

There is slagging etc. But we understand 18 and if you want to win something, get to 18.

I'm not a fan myself of any handicaps over 18. But I've had to change my internal tolerances.

At a quick glance through the mens results in my place since we opened back up:

Stableford Comps:

Total events: 53

Average winning score: 41.8

Average winning Handicap: 19.4

Events won with a score of 44 or better: 19%

Events won by single digit: 11%

Events won by >28: 17%

Events won by >18: 55%

Stokes events (much smaller sample):

Total events: 8

Average winning net score: 65.25

Average winning Handicap: 18.9

Events won with a score of 67 or better: 87.5%

Events won by single digit: 12.5%

Events won by >28: 0%

Events won by >18: 62.5%

Would need to do a fair bit more digging to pull the entry breakdown. Might take a look at some other time when i have enough free time on my hands

Here are some similar numbers from my course.

I have split them between the white and blue tees. The blue tee comps were a mix of Stroke and Stableford so I converted the points to the equivalent stroke score.

Also the handicaps recorded in our results are the Playing Handicaps so that is what I have used here.

Stableford Comps White Tees:

Total events: 48

Average winning score: 42.5

Average winning Handicap: 16.1

Events won with a score of 44 or better: 35%

Events won by single digit: 15%

Events won by >28: 4%

Events won by >18: 33%

Stableford & Strokes Comps Blue Tees:

Total events: 9

Average winning net score (par 72): 68.7

Average winning Handicap: 15.7

Events won with a score of 67 or better: 22%

Events won by single digit: 0% (10-12 playing handicaps won 4 out of the 9. So 2 or 3 of them would have had single figure handicap indexes)

Events won by >28: 0%

Events won by >18: 44%

Mine above are purely based on PH too above

Jesus - lads fair play putting them together - mathematically illustrates why overall competition is not for me and drives me nuts.

The average winning score is 42/43 (average 😲) - I genuinely couldn't be in a club like that. I'd imagine in clubs like that it is just too tempting if you were that way inclined to target a handicap that enables 42/43 points.

Sure as people are saying - the data will be there - and if the average winning pts is going up , the competitive aspect whilst previously hard for single figure players , is kinda gone now.

I only enter competitions to win - the handicap is a reference to my performance in them competitions.

That's the average Fix. Look at the percentage over 44 points and the highest there is 35%. Which means that the vast majority are under that. 93% of scores are under that on my course and 27% are actually 36 points or lower.

I believe the biggest issue is actually the course ratings. Courses where the average points are high would likely be overrated, giving higher than needed playing handicaps. But also, you have to look at the number of entries in comps and the higher chances of a blowout score or two coming in.

I also guarantee you that if the same exercise was carried out on CONGU scores, you'd get similar enough results.

Ours is around 13% single digits and 9% 28 or over. Big difference there. 30% are between 10 and 20.

Agree