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Traffic Congestion.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    Is the 8160 (20*408) looking at one direction only meaning a potential for over 16k per hour?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,276 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    yes, one direction only. please feel free to sanity test my figures though!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    I missed your "in each direction" bit - figured are fine



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    as i mentioned earlier in the thread, if you filled the M50 with stationary cars along its 3 lane length, using all 4 lanes, allowing 5m per car - you'd get fewer than 50,000 cars on it. that's 8 lanes for about 30km, filled with cars. you'd need 11 M50s to park up all the cars in dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,839 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    vast majority of people that had access to a car but used buses / trains or Luas for say convenience to get to work faster, the environment or whatever.... will have been back into a car as a result of covid...

    last three months I’ve noticed a serious upsurge in traffic congestion around here and also on the regular trips I make weekly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭ Murph85


    It takes cash and a leap card... no credit or debit card. Its nearly 2022... I mean other countries have only had it for decades...


    For a country that is an IT hub. It's truly bizarre, how backwards this place is...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭ El Tarangu


    I don't recall any city where the bus service allows users to pay by credit card on the bus itself - New York, London, Paris, Madrid all require you to top up a pre-paid card (at least they did when I was last there).



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Benefit in kind on parking space is madness for people who have to drive their cars. Driving is already taxed too much as it is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    They're not incentivising electric cars to get traffic on the road, they're doing it to get ICE cars off the road but in order to do this properly no ICE car that is traded for an EV in say more than 5 years old should be scrapped and not allowed on the road again.

    Of course that's just my opinion.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    How will electric cars reduce traffic congestion?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Never said they'd reduce congestion but the idea is if someone is buying new then EV offers a much lower emissions alternative than diesel, much less actual pollution with 30% of electricity from renewables it's a step in the right direction + electrics use their energy much more efficiently than ICE cars.

    If they really want to lower emissions then the old car traded in shouldn't be allowed back on the road and there should be a proper scrappage system for 10+ year old cars, especially diesels which are the most polluting.

    Reducing cars on the road won't happen without proper subway system and proper dart like services, not a slow luas that has to stop at junctions and crawls along.

    There's only road links to industrial estates, so those commuting would have to take trains or bus to the city then get another 1-2 buses or more to get to work with anything up to a 3 hr commute isn't practical, then standing on the wind and rain is also not appealing without proper shelter.

    We're decades away from a proper public transport system. Not even Naas has any form of rail link ffs, that could be put on stilts over the N7, 2 tracks each side and frequent high speed rail to the city. A proper park and ride there around naas would be an idea. Would take huge volumes of traffic off the N7 if the M7/M9 traffic had a rail link from Naas. They could extend this further down to Newbridge/Carlow etc eventually. Then link up the Business parks along the M50 North and South.

    Probably 50-100 years away given the progress with public transport in Ireland. My guess is that a proper subway in Dublin is probably minimum of half a Centaury away. This isn't even in the thoughts of Government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,544 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Your subway and train won't drop you to your industrial estate though. Probably even far more removed than a bus.

    There's a fanciful notion spending billions on a subway will solve Dublin's issues. That money would be better sent on commuter belt free parking and subsidised regular tracked frequent bus services. Make it convenient and easy . Make it easier than the alternative of stress driving into an expensive no car city



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    in the short term, no. but why shouldn't we flip it and ask why we can't be building those destinations along railway routes? why shouldn't you be able to get a rail option to your industrial estates and business parks?

    a lot of that is due to the fact that we ripped up a huge proportion of our rail lines.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    Never said they'd reduce congestion but the idea is if someone is buying new then EV offers a much lower emissions alternative than diesel, much less actual pollution with 30% of electricity from renewables it's a step in the right direction + electrics use their energy much more efficiently than ICE cars.


    If they really want to lower emissions then the old car traded in shouldn't be allowed back on the road and there should be a proper scrappage system for 10+ year old cars, especially diesels which are the most polluting.

    If the ambition is to discourage the purchase of new ICE based cars then they could whack up the VRT on them and also increase motor tax.

    There should not be incentives for electric cars though. Incentives should be used to encourage the use of public transport and active travel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭ El Tarangu


    Why would one particular BIK not be taxed the same as the others?

    Driving clearly needs to be made more expensive in order to discourage people from doing so much of it; if petrol were twice as expensive, people might think twice about using a one-tonne machine to go a few hundred metres down the road in order to pick up a loaf of bread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,544 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Need to resolve funding the commutes into city at the same time. Can't just tax and offer no equivalent solutions...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭ whippet


    what you incentivise should be based on a strategic policy .. and you can have more than one strategic policy at a time. Incentivising EVs should help the transition from burning fossil fuels as part of personal transportation which is a strategy that is needed. While separately the incentivising of public transport will encourage more people out of single vehicle commuting. Both can operate together - so no need to pitch one against the other.

    The tax saver / bike to work schemes are examples of incentivising of non car related commuting - you can argue the merits or failures of each incentive. But they are there in order to encourage more people to leave the car at home.

    Realistically a massive proportion of people who are on the M50 each morning do not have an alternative - otherwise they wouldn't be there. I know this from experience. If like me who spent the guts of 15 years working in Ballymount ... buses were not an option. I was coming from the M1 .. if I were to do it by bus / train .. I'd have to drive to bus station .. 45 mins on bus .. change in City Centre and another 45-60 mins out to Ballymount. There was no alternative but to go via the city centre. As bad as the M50 was - 1h20-1h45 hours average commute was a superior option to similar if not more jumping between buses / trains and the expense of it. Fuel / tolls were cheaper than commuting.

    This is why I am looking at this problem from a different angle .... get people out of the city .. fundamentally change how we work ... COVID proved that a huge portion of the working population could do so without having to arrive at the same locations at the same time as everyone else every day. Even if 30% of commuters didn't have to at a desk in the greater Dublin area for 9am each day suddenly the massive need to invest in more roads, bus lanes, parking etc would be reduced

    Taxing / charging people who have no alternative isn't a sustainable solution to a problem ... as with most things in life it is about supply and demand. Reduce the demand for rush hour traffic and the supply will look after it self



  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭ SupplyandDemandZone


    I can jump in my car and be in work in just over an hour. Public transport would take me circa 2hrs i know this because ive done it a few times i'd need a bus then a train then another bus. It's also cheaper to drive my car. On occasion i use my motorbike and im in work in 25 mins.

    Until they price me off the road i won't changing and at that stage i'll be retired anyway.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    maybe you should canvass your local TDs for better public transport?



  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭ Murph85


    I agree with this totally. But the government are junkies on the revenue it brings in... this is what makes it such a farce, I've been saying it for years. New petrol and diesel sales, should have way higher vrt or motor tax I'd actually be in favour of banning new diesel sales by 2025...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious


    Traffic congestion is a good thing. If roads are empty people will think they're in a communist bloc country and that the economy is doing bad. If the roads are all clogged with people stressed and blowing their horns they'll think they're in New York and things are fantastic. This will cause them to spend more in the shop meaning more and better paid resale jobs selling Chinese sh1te for all

    Stellantis: All the sh1t brands under one roof



  • Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭ sergioaguero


    the train is a great service and goes right into the city, only problem is its a complete rip off so would turn you off using it



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,682 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    Why should employers subsidise a subset of their employees (generally a better-off, higher-paid subset) with a benefit of significant value when no equivalent benefit is available to those who walk, cycle or use public transport?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,682 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    'Free parking' isn't free. Someone has to pay for the cost of providing the space and managing the facility.

    Why should society as a whole be paying for the parking facilities that only benefit a select group - motorists?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,682 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    The 'don't have an alternative' point isn't supported by the evidence that shows that a large percentage of car journeys are for distances that are easily walked or cycled, <4km.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭ whippet


    can you quote this 'evidence' that refutes my point that the large majority of those on the M50 have alternatives that are not easily walked or cycled?



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