Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

Brucie Bonus · 25-10-2021 01:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069452#Comment_118069452

But isn't your whole claim we don't want a UI as per the GFA? You accept the Irish want a UI. The manner doesn't change that surely? We signed up to peace and stated our intention to seek a UI by democratic means.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070105#Comment_118070105

Or the IRA defeated the British Army? After all, the British sat down with a party they banned from being aired on the BBC without voice over actors and an organisation they labelled terrorists and reached an amicable agreement.

Do you not respect or accept the peace agreement? You seem to accept it but then claim one side lost? Can you clarify?

TBH, with attitudes like yours at play our President was best off out of it.

eire4 · 25-10-2021 05:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070349#Comment_118070349

The whole "won the war" manta so beloved of some is so redolent of the supremacist mentality of the apartheid state that loyalists yearn for.

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118070505#Comment_118070505

No, my claim was that a) we gave up our constitutional territorial claim to the North and b) ratified the GFA which proclaims that the North belongs to the UK so long as the people of the North wills it. The North yesterday, today and tomorrow is part of the UK. That is just reality.

People do realise that there has NEVER EVER been a poll from the north that has a majority wanting to a UI? People do realise that right?

If that stays the same, people do realise the North will NEVER EVER join the south and will remain in the UK?

... and there is nothing the Irish government or you or I or the IRA or SF can do about it because we have all agreed that it is up to the democratic will of the people in the North to leave the UK and form a UI..... that no poll has ever shown a majority in wanting....

..... and we have some people that dont 'accept' partition as the here and now?

Laughable how people can deny reality.

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071381#Comment_118071381

Well, it is factual to say that the 1969 SF and PIRA wanted to force a UI by the gun.

This is on the public record. No ifs or buts about their primary goal.

They failed in that goal, yet we cannot call it a defeat?

FrancieBrady · 25-10-2021 11:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072809#Comment_118072809

b) ratified the GFA which proclaims that the North belongs to the UK so long as the people of the North wills it.

It 'proclaims' no such thing. What it says is: we accept the will of the majority - be that to remain in the UK or to unite Ireland.

You are projecting as usual.

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072827#Comment_118072827

The GFA states that the status quo of remaining in the UK until a majority wills it otherwise.

recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

'continue to support the Union' aka remain in the UK.

The Irish government on our behalf ( and SF mind ) voted yes to this...

As no poll has ever shown that such support be withdrawn the status quo will remain indefinitely until that changes if it ever will.

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:51PM

and the kicker.....

acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of the island of Ireland for a united Ireland, the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;

I guess you will ignore that bit too....

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:51PM

People should really read the GFA.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/136652/agreement.pdf

FrancieBrady · 25-10-2021 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072843#Comment_118072843

Yes Mark...we recognise a 'choice'...as the British recognise the choice to unify.

Nothing there about 'accepting' partition except a partitionist's projecting of something that isn't there.

markodaly · 25-10-2021 11:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072861#Comment_118072861

Ah I see you missed this part of the GFA.

Here let me post it again..

the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people;

Check.mate...

FrancieBrady · 25-10-2021 11:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072865#Comment_118072865

really Mark...really?

'The 'present wish'?

It even underscores what is being accepted and still you try to project.

markodaly · 26-10-2021 12:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072873#Comment_118072873

The present wish is the status quo, for NI to remain part of the UK, which is a legitimate viewpoint, something you voted 'yes' to. Buyers remorse?

That was the wish today, yesterday, and tomorrow....

Do you not accept that NI is part of the UK and that is the wish of the people of NI?

FrancieBrady · 26-10-2021 12:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072898#Comment_118072898

I accept the will of the majority Mark. If there was something else I accepted in the GFA then you have dismally failed to find it.

The language is careful and it has caught you out many times now. You have to 'project' something that is NOT there.

Funny now to see how desperate you are to have us all accept partition. And crazier still, you object to being called a partitionist.

markodaly · 26-10-2021 12:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072907#Comment_118072907

So you accept that NI is part of the UK, as that is the present will of the majority, enshrined and protected by law by the GFA and likely will be thus for a long long time.

Good to know you recognise partition as a fact.

When did I object to being called a paritionist? Find me the quote please.

FrancieBrady · 26-10-2021 12:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072954#Comment_118072954

Jesus, how many times Mark?

I accept the will of the majority, nothing more.

ittakestwo · 26-10-2021 12:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069452#Comment_118069452

Partion happened in 1921 not 1998. Would it not have been the signing of the Anglo Irish treaty in 1920 that caused partition Mark??

Obviously to agree on how something ends you have to acknowledge it has happened in the first place. How on earth could we agree on how to end partition if we couldn't even have acknowledge it had happened Mark?? Prior to the GFA we did not know how it would end and it might have been presumed that it needed the people of Britain or London to agree. Thankfully most people on Ireland seem happy that the ending of partition is just up to us by the terms of the GFA. Also the GFA acknowledges and protects the fact that the Irish nation covers all of Ireland hence why we can't have a hard border on her despite being partitioned.

"Northern Ireland will be forever British unless people want to change it"? What happens in the real and growing likely situation the UK breaks up? Although the GFA does not say what happens in this situation it May leave the UK by an other means other than that set out by the GFA.

eire4 · 26-10-2021 01:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072819#Comment_118072819

You can call it a defeat to your hearts content all you like I could care less. I stand by what I said and will reiterate it again for the avoidance of any doubt:

The whole "won the war" manta so beloved of some is so redolent of the supremacist mentality of the apartheid state that loyalists yearn for.

markodaly · 26-10-2021 01:19AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072963#Comment_118072963

The will of the majority..... where NI stays part of the UK.

That is what you accept.

Cant find the quote? Not a surprise. lol

FrancieBrady · 26-10-2021 01:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073027#Comment_118073027

Jesus again Mark, say it all.

'The will of the majority..... where NI stays part of the UK or if it decides to Unify.

There wasn't just a partitionist angle to the GFA.

It found an accommodation for those who oppose and refuse to accept the partition of this island and aspire to Unify it. An aspiration that is built into our constitution because we don't accept partition.

You are sounding like a beaten docket on this. Nowhere did we 'accept' partition. You did, probably long before the GFA.

markodaly · 26-10-2021 01:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073034#Comment_118073034

Yes, 'If'....but until then remains part of the UK and will remain so until then, if then ever happens..

Partition is a reality and I will repost the same bit from the GFA.

the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, freely exercised and legitimate, is to maintain the Union and, accordingly, that Northern Ireland’s status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish; and that it would be wrong to make any change in the status of Northern Ireland save with the consent of a majority of its people

FrancieBrady · 26-10-2021 01:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073048#Comment_118073048

and I accept that wish of the majority.

I do not accept the partition of this country and have always and will always observe the constitutional aspiration to unite it.

You done projected something that doesn't exist AGAIN Mark.

markodaly · 26-10-2021 02:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073051#Comment_118073051

I know that you accept that NI is part of the UK, as per the wish of the majority.

Not sure what the debate is at this point. Partition is a fact of life, something even you accept. You can of course aspire to unity, but as per the GFA NI is part of the UK today and tomorrow as per the wish of the majority, like you said.

Would love you to find the quote by the way of me rejecting being called a partitionist.

FrancieBrady · 26-10-2021 02:16AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073057#Comment_118073057

Took all of two seconds to find you not too happy about being called a partitionist here in Feedback. You even took it up with the mods.

I have to second the issue of using labels in order to detract from the topic at hand.

For example, we are discouraged to use the word shinnerbot. Yet the word, partitionist is used with impunity and used in a deliberately inflammatory manner. It is not even the use of a label per say, it is used as a weapon to mostly wind other people up and paint them into a corner, time and time again.

I have raised this with the mods, and have been asked to post here for feedback.

Post 106 here: Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum - Page 4 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

blanch152 · 26-10-2021 10:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071381#Comment_118071381

Ironically it is SF and the PIRA who claim they "won the war", a war that nobody else was even fighting. Yes, it is redolent of the mentality of the pre-1970 state, but that is sectarianism on two sides of the same coin again.

McMurphy · 26-10-2021 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073771#Comment_118073771

Any chance you can link to an official source claiming that?

Would seem a very odd claim for a political party to make.

blanch152 · 26-10-2021 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073834#Comment_118073834

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/anger-over-ira-undefeated-army-t-shirt-for-sale-on-sinn-fein-website-36455561.html

Get off the stage, they even sell their undefeated army T-shirts on their website!!! That is more than enough proof.

However, just like Mary-Lou claiming she won the popular vote or David "Up the Ra" Cullinane claiming they broke the Free State, it is only in their mind.

jm08 · 26-10-2021 01:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074469#Comment_118074469

''Undefeated'' is not the same as ''winning''. I'd interpret ''undefeated'' as a ''draw'' - no one lost, everyone was a winner!

26-10-2021 01:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072843#Comment_118072843

Not a bit puzzling,that yous excluded this piece of section yous quoted

iii) acknowledge that while a substantial section of the people in Northern Ireland share the legitimate wish of a majority of the people of the island of Ireland for a united Ireland

Surely since your so concerned about democratic concerns,yous will support calls to hold.a border poll before next summer?.....

.partition has been an utter failure and mikey d was bang on,not to celebrate it....i think he should resign though as ffg have openly undermined him

26-10-2021 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074766#Comment_118074766

Bit like the taliban and yanks,do anyone honestly believe the yanks couldnt faught on forever into a military stalemate,they'd never win

I did like the bit where partionista are rattled as fcuk for someone daring to.say.up.the ra.....easy to know,whos never been in a pub late at night,stood on the killian end at munster finals🤣...christ almighty its all.about shutting down free speech and everyone conform to dull corporate dry sh1te rubbish with em

McMurphy · 26-10-2021 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074469#Comment_118074469

I'll take that as a no so.

You lads post an awful lot of nonsense that you're unable to back up..

Look up "stalemate" blanch.

Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

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